Who Is the Giver of Life By KJV Scripture?

KJV Scripture Versus the Nicene creed: Who is the Giver of Life.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. KJV

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. ... 32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. 35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. KJV

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. KJV

John 17:1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. KJV

1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. KJV

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. KJV

The only thing I can find for why the Nicene creed bothered to modify it in 381 A,D, in attributing the Holy Spirit as the Giver of Life is in 2 Corinthians 3:6 thinking that spirit was capitalized as referring to the Holy Spirit when in reality, "spirit" is referring to in principle as opposing the letter.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. KJV

Now since scripture points to the Son for life; Who would the Holy Spirit give that credit to?

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. KJV

Comparing the many verses as opposing the misreading of the one in 2 Corinthians 3:6, is the modified Nicene creed correct in assigning the title of the Giver of Life to the Holy Spirit rather than the Son when scripture & the Holy Spirit would give that title Giver of Life to the Son to glorify Him & thereby the Father?

If we do not answer the question, are we condoning dishonoring the Son by giving the glory of the Giver of Life to the Holy Spirit as the Nicene creed is leading believers to testify of as?

Hark said:

The only thing I can find for why the Nicene creed bothered to modify it in 381 A,D, in attributing the Holy Spirit as the Giver of Life is in 2 Corinthians 3:6 thinking that spirit was capitalized as referring to the Holy Spirit when in reality, "spirit" is referring to in principle as opposing the letter.

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The KJV is wrong in this. The Greek here is, ", τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ζῳοποιεῖ", where is it evident that it is The Holy Sprit Who is meant, the literal translation being, "but the Spirit gives life". This corresponds with the words in John 6:63, “το πνευμα εστιν το ζωοποιουν”, that is, “The Spirit is The Life-giver”. This makes the Holy Spirit as the "source" of all life. In Psalm 36:9, it says, "For with you is the fountain of life", as reference to God, the "source" of all life. In Acts 3:15, it says, "and you killed the Author of life", which is Jesus Christ. Which makes Jesus Christ as the "source" of all life.

The Three Persons in the Godhead, and equally Almighty God, and therefore are The Creators of everything.

SavedByGrace said:

The KJV is wrong in this. The Greek here is, ", τὸ δὲ πνεῦμα ζῳοποιεῖ", where is it evident that it is The Holy Sprit Who is meant, the literal translation being, "but the Spirit gives life". This corresponds with the words in John 6:63, “το πνευμα εστιν το ζωοποιουν”, that is, “The Spirit is The Life-giver”. This makes the Holy Spirit as the "source" of all life. In Psalm 36:9, it says, "For with you is the fountain of life", as reference to God, the "source" of all life. In Acts 3:15, it says, "and you killed the Author of life", which is Jesus Christ. Which makes Jesus Christ as the "source" of all life.

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Did you know that the Greek word "pneuma" for "spirit" in scripture has more than one meaning?

"from pnew - pneo 4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit:--ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually), mind. Compare yuch - psuche 5590. "

So pneuma cannot always refer to the Holy Spirit, but how spirit is used in the verse defines that word.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. KJV

From the definition on how spirit is used in the verse is more akin to vital principle rather than to specifically the Person of the Holy Spirit. Proof of rightly dividing the word of truth is how "they" cannot be referring to the Holy Spirit. So over 50 KJV translators did it right by keeping the spirit not capitalized.

2 Corinthians 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. KJV

Since this is in regards to the new testament, on how we are able ministers; not of the letter of the new testament but of the spirit of the New Testament, thus alluding to vital principle & not specifically the Person of the Holy Spirit

I cannot convince you, but you are required to ask Jesus Christ for wisdom in understanding His words for what He is saying in those verses, because "demon" is also a definition of pneuma and we know that does not apply to the Holy Spirit at all.

The Three Persons in the Godhead, and equally Almighty God, and therefore are The Creators of everything.

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We take our truths from scripture & not assume anything just because there are 3 Witnesses within the One God.

John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.....10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.... 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. KJV

Now in Genesis 1:26, at the request by the Word of God to create man in "our image", when the Father agreed, & the Spirit of the Father agreed, then the Son performed it with the agreement from the Father & the Spirit as the One God in Genesis 1:27.

The prayer system is set up in the same way now as Jesus gives our petitions, the Spirit's silent petitions, & His own petitions to the Father so whenever the Father agrees with a certain petition, the Son answers the prayer per John 14:13-14 as all power is given unto the Son per John 28:18. The Holy Spirit is in agreement but Jesus performs the deed as per John 16:13-15 whereby the Holy Spirit gives the credit & the glory for everything to the Son as even the fruits of righteousness; Philippians 2:11 as it is Jesus the author & finisher of our faith per Hebrews 12:1-2 for why He is the One that shall finish His work to His glory per Philippians 1:6 & 2 Timothy 4:18 & Jude 1:24-25.

God's glory rests on His Son; John 13:31-32 That is the mind of Christ to have in worship that Paul emphasized in obeying per Philippians 2:5-13 It is not the Trinity to be exalted nor the Holy Spirit, but the Son in order to glorify God the Father. There is no other way to glorify the Father except thru His Son & that is Who the Holy Spirit in us is leading us to do in worship as per John 15:26-27

I hope you know you can click on the blue scriptural reference in this post that will pop up another window for you to read the scripture for confirmation in His words.

You should ask Jesus why scripture goes out of the way in testifying of the Son as He Who gives life other than for us to testify to the same in according to His words.

Hark said:

So over 50 KJV translators did it right by keeping the spirit not capitalized.

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for starters, check my post here, The KJV and The Deity of Jesus Christ

Hark said:

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. KJV

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check here to see how many English versions read "Spirit", and not "spirit", John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.. Don't think that the KJV is Infallible and Perfect, as it is not!

Hark said:

Now in Genesis 1:26, at the request by the Word of God to create man in "our image", when the Father agreed, & the Spirit of the Father agreed, then the Son performed it with the agreement from the Father & the Spirit as the One God in Genesis 1:27.

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yeah, just where did you get this from? No where in the entire Bible, does it say ONCE, that God the Son, "requested" the Creation of man; or that He required any "agreement" from the Father and Holy Spirit to Create! The Bible is very clear that The Father IS the actual Creator. The Son IS the actual Creator, and the Holy Spirit IS the actual Creator. The Three Persons did everything together, because They are EQUALLY YHWH!

Hark said:

Did you know that the Greek word "pneuma" for "spirit" in scripture has more than one meaning?

"from pnew - pneo 4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, demon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit:--ghost, life, spirit(-ual, -ually), mind. Compare yuch - psuche 5590. "

So pneuma cannot always refer to the Holy Spirit, but how spirit is used in the verse defines that word.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. KJV

From the definition on how spirit is used in the verse is more akin to vital principle rather than to specifically the Person of the Holy Spirit. Proof of rightly dividing the word of truth is how "they" cannot be referring to the Holy Spirit. So over 50 KJV translators did it right by keeping the spirit not capitalized.

2 Corinthians 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. KJV

Since this is in regards to the new testament, on how we are able ministers; not of the letter of the new testament but of the spirit of the New Testament, thus alluding to vital principle & not specifically the Person of the Holy Spirit

I cannot convince you, but you are required to ask Jesus Christ for wisdom in understanding His words for what He is saying in those verses, because "demon" is also a definition of pneuma and we know that does not apply to the Holy Spirit at all.



We take our truths from scripture & not assume anything just because there are 3 Witnesses within the One God.

John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.....10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.... 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. KJV

Now in Genesis 1:26, at the request by the Word of God to create man in "our image", when the Father agreed, & the Spirit of the Father agreed, then the Son performed it with the agreement from the Father & the Spirit as the One God in Genesis 1:27.

The prayer system is set up in the same way now as Jesus gives our petitions, the Spirit's silent petitions, & His own petitions to the Father so whenever the Father agrees with a certain petition, the Son answers the prayer per John 14:13-14 as all power is given unto the Son per John 28:18. The Holy Spirit is in agreement but Jesus performs the deed as per John 16:13-15 whereby the Holy Spirit gives the credit & the glory for everything to the Son as even the fruits of righteousness; Philippians 2:11 as it is Jesus the author & finisher of our faith per Hebrews 12:1-2 for why He is the One that shall finish His work to His glory per Philippians 1:6 & 2 Timothy 4:18 & Jude 1:24-25.

God's glory rests on His Son; John 13:31-32 That is the mind of Christ to have in worship that Paul emphasized in obeying per Philippians 2:5-13 It is not the Trinity to be exalted nor the Holy Spirit, but the Son in order to glorify God the Father. There is no other way to glorify the Father except thru His Son & that is Who the Holy Spirit in us is leading us to do in worship as per John 15:26-27

I hope you know you can click on the blue scriptural reference in this post that will pop up another window for you to read the scripture for confirmation in His words.

You should ask Jesus why scripture goes out of the way in testifying of the Son as He Who gives life other than for us to testify to the same in according to His words.

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much of what you write here is not Biblical theology. You seem to have a "subordination" of Persons in the Godhead!

Hark said:

2 Corinthians 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. KJV

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also check the English translations that have "Spirit" in verse 6, 2 Corinthians 3:6 And He has qualified us as ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

SavedByGrace said:

check here to see how many English versions read "Spirit", and not "spirit", John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.. Don't think that the KJV is Infallible and Perfect, as it is not!

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Take time out & pray because scripture testifies of Who scripture of to go to for life. That is how you know those verses are small " s ".

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. KJV

I am sure your Bible versions says that.

Hark said:

Take time out & pray because scripture testifies of Who scripture of to go to for life. That is how you know those verses are small " s ".

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. KJV

I am sure your Bible versions says that.

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get your head out of the KJV, it is NOT God's revealed Word to the human race!

SavedByGrace said:

yeah, just where did you get this from? No where in the entire Bible, does it say ONCE, that God the Son, "requested" the Creation of man; or that He required any "agreement" from the Father and Holy Spirit to Create! The Bible is very clear that The Father IS the actual Creator. The Son IS the actual Creator, and the Holy Spirit IS the actual Creator. The Three Persons did everything together, because They are EQUALLY YHWH!

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I pray the Lord Jesus Christ will help you to take pause & listen rather than react.

We take our truths from scripture & not assume anything just because there are 3 Witnesses within the One God.

John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.....10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.... 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. KJV

Now in Genesis 1:26, at the request by the Word of God to create man in "our image", when the Father agreed, & the Spirit of the Father agreed, then the Son performed it with the agreement from the Father & the Spirit as the One God in Genesis 1:27.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. KJV

The request was made in the plural sense & so when the One God performed the act in was in agreement to the Word of God.


The prayer system is set up in the same way now as Jesus gives our petitions, the Spirit's silent petitions, & His own petitions to the Father so whenever the Father agrees with a certain petition, the Son answers the prayer per John 14:13-14 as all power is given unto the Son per Matthew 28:18.

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. KJV

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. KJV

The Holy Spirit is in agreement but Jesus performs the deed as per John 16:13-15 whereby the Holy Spirit gives the credit & the glory for everything to the Son as even the fruits of righteousness; Philippians 1:11 as it is Jesus the author & finisher of our faith per Hebrews 12:1-2 for why He is the One that shall finish His work to His glory per Philippians 1:6 & 2 Timothy 4:18 & Jude 1:24-25.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. KJV

Philippians 1:11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God. KJV

See where the fruits of the Spirit comes from? The Lord Jesus Christ. Everything the Spirit does is to glorify the Son; not Himself. That is what scripture says about what the Holy Spirit does & this is what scriptures says about a true witness.

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.... KJV

John 7: 18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. KJV

John 3:28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. 29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. 30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

His words regarding the witness of men. Since that is His words for men, then that is how God will witness too.

John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. KJV

That is what happened at Jesus's water baptism both the Father & the Holy Spirit bore witnesses of the Son so what the Father said from heaven is true about His Son.

Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. ~ KJV

What was fulfilled in Matthew 3:15? This prophesy below.

Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17 Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. KJV

God is speaking & yet the Lord God & His Spirit sent Him, God our Redeemer. That is why the witness of the father's & the Holy Spirit's was sent at His water baptism to confirm His Son & to fulfill the prophesy.

If you see how God keeps to His words for true witnessing, then you may understand by His grace & His help why the Holy Spirit will not lead a believe to testify of the Holy Spirit to see His glory when the Holy Spirit is leading them to speak of the Son in seeking His glory. There is no other way the Holy Spirit will lead us to witness other than the Son to His glory & by Him the glory of God the Father.

Imagine yourself alone worshiping the Lord Jesus Christ & God the Father in Heaven. For your witness to be true, the Holy Spirit is saying the same thing for your worship to be done in spirit & in truth to the glory of God the Father by way of the Son.

SavedByGrace said:

yeah, just where did you get this from? No where in the entire Bible, does it say ONCE, that God the Son, "requested" the Creation of man; or that He required any "agreement" from the Father and Holy Spirit to Create! The Bible is very clear that The Father IS the actual Creator. The Son IS the actual Creator, and the Holy Spirit IS the actual Creator. The Three Persons did everything together, because They are EQUALLY YHWH!

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But only One died on the cross as the Son of Man / Son of God. It is the will of the Father that is to be done. The Son is in agreement with the Holy Spirit in regards to the father's will. Jesus is the Creator & the Redeemer as scripture signify as nothing was made without Him, and yet this was done by permission of God the Father with the Holy Spirit in agreement per the Word of God's request.

SavedByGrace said:

much of what you write here is not Biblical theology. You seem to have a "subordination" of Persons in the Godhead!

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Remember Jesus's prayer in the Garden of Gethesmane?

Luke 22:41 And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed, 42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. KJV

What do you call that?

SavedByGrace said:

also check the English translations that have "Spirit" in verse 6, 2 Corinthians 3:6 And He has qualified us as ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

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That has been addressed for why spirit in that verse is not referring to the Holy Spirit but a vital principle.

The Old Covenant is of the letter for men to seek to save themselves by while the New Covenant is of God as it is on God to do it thus by faith in Jesus Christ hence the spirit of the New Covenant as opposing the religious strivings of man per the old..

SavedByGrace said:

get your head out of the KJV, it is NOT God's revealed Word to the human race!

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And what is? Why all this prejudices towards the KJV? Does it reprove something you don't like for why you prefer other modern Bible versions or what? Cite your Bible version.

Hark said:

Cite your Bible version

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Hebrew, Greek, Latin, KJV, NKJV, NASB, ESV, NLT, NIV, Weymouth, Geneva, Bishops, etc, etc.

SavedByGrace said:

Hebrew, Greek, Latin, KJV, NKJV, NASB, ESV, NLT, NIV, Weymouth, Geneva, Bishops, etc, etc.

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Can you say they all say the same thing? From the looks of it, only the KJV keeps 2 Corinthians 3:6 as small s in spirit among your choices for Bible versions.

Are there any modern versions that agrees with the KJV small " s "?

2 Corinthians 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of a new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. ASV American Standard Version.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us fit ministers of the new testament, not in the letter, but in the spirit. For the letter killeth, but the spirit quickeneth.~ DRA Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition

2 Corinthians 3:6 He also made us competent as ministers of a new testament (not of letter, but of spirit). For the letter kills, but the spirit gives life. EHV Evangelical Heritage Version

2 Corinthians 3:6 God has qualified us to be stewards of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the spirit. The letter kills, you see, but the spirit gives life. NTE New Testament For Everyone

2 Corinthians 3:6 who also made us sufficient [to be] ministrants of a new covenant, not of letter, but of spirit; for the letter doth kill, and the spirit doth make alive. YLT Young's Literal Translation

So the KJV is not alone in keeping the "s" small as referring to vital principle rather than the Holy Spirit Himself.

It is a wonder why so many scriptures points to Jesus to come to for life as He is the One that gives life & yet people would rather include the Spirit as the One whereas the Nicene creed of 381 A.D. gives the sole credit to the Spirit as the Giver of Life. I can understand it when reading John 6:63 & 2 Corinthians 3:6 as if spirit is capitalized, but at the expense of other scripture plainly giving the Son that credit as the Giver of Life? Even if in doubt, scripture testify Who scripture is testifying about to come to for life.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. KJV

That tells me John 6:63 & 2 Corinthians 3:6 is small s in spirit as referring to vital principle & not the Holy Spirit..

Hark said:

Can you say they all say the same thing? From the looks of it, only the KJV keeps 2 Corinthians 3:6 as small s in spirit among your choices for Bible versions.

Are there any modern versions that agrees with the KJV small " s "?

2 Corinthians 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of a new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. ASV American Standard Version.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us fit ministers of the new testament, not in the letter, but in the spirit. For the letter killeth, but the spirit quickeneth.~ DRA Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition

2 Corinthians 3:6 He also made us competent as ministers of a new testament (not of letter, but of spirit). For the letter kills, but the spirit gives life. EHV Evangelical Heritage Version

2 Corinthians 3:6 God has qualified us to be stewards of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the spirit. The letter kills, you see, but the spirit gives life. NTE New Testament For Everyone

2 Corinthians 3:6 who also made us sufficient [to be] ministrants of a new covenant, not of letter, but of spirit; for the letter doth kill, and the spirit doth make alive. YLT Young's Literal Translation

So the KJV is not alone in keeping the "s" small as referring to vital principle rather than the Holy Spirit Himself.

It is a wonder why so many scriptures points to Jesus to come to for life as He is the One that gives life & yet people would rather include the Spirit as the One whereas the Nicene creed of 381 A.D. gives the sole credit to the Spirit as the Giver of Life. I can understand it when reading John 6:63 & 2 Corinthians 3:6 as if spirit is capitalized, but at the expense of other scripture plainly giving the Son that credit as the Giver of Life? Even if in doubt, scripture testify Who scripture is testifying about to come to for life.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. KJV

That tells me John 6:63 & 2 Corinthians 3:6 is small s in spirit as referring to vital principle & not the Holy Spirit..

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You are taking a verse out of its intended context. This whole chapter has The Holy Spirit as the subject, and it is about Him. When you look at verse 17, "ο δε κυριος το πνευμα εστιν ου δε το πνευμα κυριου εκει ελευθερια", this is clear to the Personality of the Holy Spirit, where the translation is, "The Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom". Two points on the Greek of the first sentence. As the Spirit is the subject, it can be translated as, "The Spirit is the Lord". The Greek has the definite article used twice here, "ο δε κυριος το πνευμα εστιν", which makes it convertable, with either reading possible. Then, we have το, which by way of renewed mention, refers this use of "The Spirit", back to its last use, which is verse 6, "το δε πνευμα ζωοποιει". This makes the use of πνευμα in verse 6 The Holy Spirit as the Person. There is no other way to take this in the Greek. Unless you want to make "ο δε κυριος το πνευμα εστιν", refer back to verse 16, and "κυριον" (Lord), which is Jesus Christ. In which case this makes the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ, one and the same Person, and removes any Personal distinction between them. Then we have verse 18, "απο κυριου πνευματος", which is, "from the Lord Spirit". The presence of the Greek preposition, "απο", here takes the place of the Greek article, "του", and making it definite, with the use of "the".

I do not believe there is any other way to understand this chapter in the Greek. I am open to been shown otherwise.

SavedByGrace said:

You are taking a verse out of its intended context. This whole chapter has The Holy Spirit as the subject, and it is about Him. When you look at verse 17, "ο δε κυριος το πνευμα εστιν ου δε το πνευμα κυριου εκει ελευθερια", this is clear to the Personality of the Holy Spirit, where the translation is, "The Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom". Two points on the Greek of the first sentence. As the Spirit is the subject, it can be translated as, "The Spirit is the Lord". The Greek has the definite article used twice here, "ο δε κυριος το πνευμα εστιν", which makes it convertable, with either reading possible. Then, we have το, which by way of renewed mention, refers this use of "The Spirit", back to its last use, which is verse 6, "το δε πνευμα ζωοποιει". This makes the use of πνευμα in verse 6 The Holy Spirit as the Person. There is no other way to take this in the Greek. Unless you want to make "ο δε κυριος το πνευμα εστιν", refer back to verse 16, and "κυριον" (Lord), which is Jesus Christ. In which case this makes the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ, one and the same Person, and removes any Personal distinction between them. Then we have verse 18, "απο κυριου πνευματος", which is, "from the Lord Spirit". The presence of the Greek preposition, "απο", here takes the place of the Greek article, "του", and making it definite, with the use of "the".

I do not believe there is any other way to understand this chapter in the Greek. I am open to been shown otherwise.

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Cannot be that the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the same person!

SavedByGrace said:

You are taking a verse out of its intended context. This whole chapter has The Holy Spirit as the subject, and it is about Him. When you look at verse 17, "ο δε κυριος το πνευμα εστιν ου δε το πνευμα κυριου εκει ελευθερια", this is clear to the Personality of the Holy Spirit, where the translation is, "The Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom". Two points on the Greek of the first sentence. As the Spirit is the subject, it can be translated as, "The Spirit is the Lord". The Greek has the definite article used twice here, "ο δε κυριος το πνευμα εστιν", which makes it convertable, with either reading possible. Then, we have το, which by way of renewed mention, refers this use of "The Spirit", back to its last use, which is verse 6, "το δε πνευμα ζωοποιει". This makes the use of πνευμα in verse 6 The Holy Spirit as the Person. There is no other way to take this in the Greek. Unless you want to make "ο δε κυριος το πνευμα εστιν", refer back to verse 16, and "κυριον" (Lord), which is Jesus Christ. In which case this makes the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ, one and the same Person, and removes any Personal distinction between them. Then we have verse 18, "απο κυριου πνευματος", which is, "from the Lord Spirit". The presence of the Greek preposition, "απο", here takes the place of the Greek article, "του", and making it definite, with the use of "the".

I do not believe there is any other way to understand this chapter in the Greek. I am open to been shown otherwise.

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No. The entire chapter is still about Jesus Christ as whenever the Spirit is referenced, it is done as the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. 4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. ~ KJV

Vital principle.

The KJV knows when to capitalize in referring to the Holy Spirit as we read on in that chapter, but note how the scripture testify Who the Holy Spirit is Representative of.

2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Why is it necessary? Because there are other spirits in the world & pneuma would require other words in relation to God to know what that spirit is of. So the scripture cannot use "Spirit" to represent Himself when He must always be the Spirit of Christ or the Spirit of the Lord as the divine Witness from God Who will not testify of Himself in seeking His own glory but of the Son in seeking His glory & by Him the glory of God the Father.. The Spirit does this thru us. He will not lead us to witness in any other way so that His witness combined with our witness is true, and that has to include worship when we worship the Lord anywhere by ourselves since our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit & Jesus Christ is with us always.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. ~ KJV

The irony is that they baptized in Jesus Christ's name in practice as many believers overlook that in Acts while they baptize literally by saying "in the name of the Father the Son & the Holy Ghost" when the name of the Triune God to call upon to be saved is Jesus Christ. As it is, Jesus said before His ascension that all power was given unto Him & that He is with us always as we are married to the Bridegroom as One with God.

You are the bride. We can get to know God the father by knowing the Son. That is Whom scripture & the holy Spirit in us is still pointing saved believers to go to in order to live this reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ. The Bridegroom relates to us through His words thru the Holy Spirit in us as we respond back to the Bridegroom, not back to the Holy Spirit.