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Featured Are Human Beings Born Sinners?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Feb 17, 2021.

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  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    from the text in Isaiah, "before the boy knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good"

    and Ronams, "had done nothing either good or bad", which is for the unborn child

    Deal with these
     
    #41 SavedByGrace, Feb 17, 2021
  2. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    To answer your OP, all human beings are born sinners.
    Psalms 58:3 should be enough to establish this.
     
    #42 Dave G, Feb 17, 2021
  3. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    That's for another thread, wouldn't you say?
    Also, I do not hold that David's son went to Heaven.

    But David did say that he would see him again.
     
    #43 Dave G, Feb 17, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
  4. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, the text does not actually state that David's son went to Heaven.
     
    #44 Reformed1689, Feb 17, 2021
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  5. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    We aren't talking about the unborn. We are talking about the born. And yes, in Isaiah, it says before the boy KNOWS it doesn't say before the boy DOES. Big difference.

    Furthermore, you have to deal with Romans 3:23
     
    #45 Reformed1689, Feb 17, 2021
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  6. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Prophecy of the coming Messiah...
    Isaiah 7:14-16.

    Before He knows to refuse the evil and to choose the good.
    i think that you're focusing on the possibility of someone neither doing good or evil and possibly being sin-free.

    Only one Man ever did that...
    See Isaiah 7:14-16. :)
    Yes, it is.
    Yet, Romans 3:23 still stands, SBG.

    No one gets a "free pass".
     
    #46 Dave G, Feb 17, 2021
  7. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    David said, "I am going to him, but he will not return to me.”, very clear that the child is in heaven, or do you think David is in hell?
     
    #47 SavedByGrace, Feb 17, 2021
  8. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    There is a time when very young children do NOT know "right from wrong", this is what the Bible says. No point in keeping on with the same verse from Romans, which is for those who HAVE sinned! All have SINNED, but the Bible says that these have NOT!
     
    #48 SavedByGrace, Feb 17, 2021
  9. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    read #48
     
    #49 SavedByGrace, Feb 17, 2021
  10. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    It could just be referring to the place of the dead. Or just death in general. It does not specifically say Heaven. Some interpret it that way but we have to be mindful of the fact that is not what it states.
     
    #50 Reformed1689, Feb 17, 2021
  11. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    The Bible does not tells us this, SBG.
    Plus, it doesn't say that he went to Heaven.

    Only that David would go to him.
     
    #51 Dave G, Feb 17, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
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  12. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Read Romans 3:10-18.

    "None" righteous means none.
     
    #52 Dave G, Feb 17, 2021
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  13. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    No it doesn't. Not knowing if something is sin doesn't mean you have not sinned. So YES, you DO have to deal with Romans 3:23 or say the Bible contradicts itself. Does the Bible contradict itself? No. Of course not. Nor does it say that children have not sinned. You are reading that into the text. Though, I can't understand how you read that into the text. It is nowhere to be found there.
     
    #53 Reformed1689, Feb 17, 2021
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  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    this is pure conjecture. I will stick with the Bible, which is very clear, that after David was told that his son had died, he rejoiced, because he was going to join him after he died, and that is not in hell!
     
    #54 SavedByGrace, Feb 17, 2021
  15. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    you do NOT understand because of you theology! Only AFTER a person SINS, they are SINNERS. The verse in Isaiah and Romans show that young children of a certain age, are NOT guilty. this is the Bible. I am not going to argue any more on this, because you like Reformed1689, are bound by your theology!
     
    #55 SavedByGrace, Feb 17, 2021
  16. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, where does it say he rejoiced?
     
    #56 Reformed1689, Feb 17, 2021
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  17. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    " But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me." ( 2 Samuel 12:23 ).

    This is all it says.
    To me, anything past that is conjecture, and really should not be used to build any doctrines.
     
    #57 Dave G, Feb 17, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
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  18. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    No, we are bound by the TEXT of Scripture. And it does NOT in any way say they have not sinned.
     
    #58 Reformed1689, Feb 17, 2021
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  19. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    as I have said before you have much to learn. You dismiss the Scriptures that are clear that children are NOT sinners at conception, or after birth at a young age. and you will keep on kicking aganist the Word of God, by producing your verse from Romans!
     
    #59 SavedByGrace, Feb 17, 2021
  20. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    what does I SHALL GO TO HIM mean? after the child was dead??? Stop trying to force the Bible to fit your theology!
     
    #60 SavedByGrace, Feb 17, 2021
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