Can Jesus Cast Out Saved Believers?

Read the scripture in the second post following the OP in this thread. Ask Jesus to help you understand His words.

 

First off, I thank the Father in Jesus's name for your response as I did pray for His word to have free course.

I am glad that you see Matthew 7:13-27 as directed to saved believers as this apostasy is rampant in churches today.

There are several usage for wheat & tares or just the tares that may be applied and one is towards what we build on that foundation. Tares in the parable of the sower is such an example in that the cares of the world chokes the word in preventing fruitfulness as Jesus did bother to explain the parable to His disciples in Matthew 13:16-23.

Then we see in another parable of the kingdom of heaven for which you had referenced regarding the enemy sowing tares in his kingdom of heaven in Matthew 13:24-30 but I point out this reaping is the pre great tribulation rapture event for how He gathers the sheep that followed His voice into the barn as those cast out, are left behind to face the fire coming on the earth & the following great tribulation as a result.

The wheat are His disciples abiding in Him are in the barn ( Marriage Supper ) from the tares that are not, but still saved. The reason I discern this is because of how the shepherd will leave the sheep to find that which is lost or have gone astray in Matthew 18:10-17. Note verse 17 regarding excommunication but keep in mind what He has said in verses 10-14 because His words applied to getting those left behind.

When you consider how excommunication is to serve the unrepentant believer in 1 Corinthians 5:4-5 in saving his spirit as he is given unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh *( physical death per 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 & Revelation 2:21-23 ) and yet the spirit is saved per 1 Corinthians 3:15, then you can understand the tares are works that deny Him on that foundation in 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 as there are more ways to deny Him than verbally denying Him per Titus 1:15-16 as this ties to Matthew 7:21-23 as they were denied for being workers of iniquity..

For the parable of the sower, you should discern with Him how only one did not receive the seed hence unbelievers and the one that did not become fruitful are saved believers from the one that were fruitful as His disciples... because..

You have to wonder if your application is saying that discipleship or running that race is to obtain salvation by without realizing it, thus a system of works is implied for salvation through discipleship, but discipleship is about how to be fruitful as His disciples by abiding in His words so that their joy may be full in living this reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ. John 15:1-8

There be those who are Christ the firstfruits & they that be Christ's at His coming. There be those who are the great in the kingdom of heaven from those that are least per Matthew 5:19 There be vessels unto honor in His House and there be vessels unto dishonor in His House as the ones that depart from iniquity with His help & by His grace, shall be received by Him as vessels unto honor. There be the fold that did not follow His voice but a stranger's voice per John 10:1-5 but He still must bring them per John 10:16 as they shall be of the one fold & one shepherd serving Him as King of kings.

Granted one has to discern how Matthew 25:41 is being used and at what time. Is this the Great White Throne Judgment or is this how He will judge those that did not have the mark of the beast for when He sends those with the mark of the beast into the lake of fire ahead of time of Satan & his angels per Revelation 19:19-21 which event is before or at the same time Satan is cast into a pit for a thousand years per Revelation 20:1-6?

Obviously those with the mark of the beast that served Satan will be cast into the lake of fire and so it goes to discernment whether that is how He will judge those people by how they treated His saints during the great tribulation for how some will enter into His kingdom from those that will not..... that did not have the mark of the beast yet or this is directed towards the Great White Throne Judgment.

Discerning Matthew 25:31-35 leads me to believe this is when He comes and sits as King of kings.in judging who enters His millennium reign and who does not from among the living that survived in coming through the great tribulation.

Since it is a prophetic judgment, discernment is needed but I believe this is what the Lord would have me believe for why it does not apply to saved believers at the rapture event. Indeed, if you note, Matthew 25:31-46 was judging how unbelievers treated His saints as they were judged by their works in how they had treated His saints, even the least of the saints which they were as saints that were left behind.

I am open to correction by Him thru others but I believe He has led me to apply all guideposts in that reference to that discernment.

Thank you again for replying, brother. may God cause the increase in His iron sharpening iron for us to bear more fruit.

 

He only says that because He had warned his disciples that if they deny Him verbally, He will deny them verbally. BUT this is professing believers that are workers of iniquity and not verbally denying Him, but by their works of iniquity is how they are denying Him per Titus 1:15-16 BUT even if they stop believing in Him, He sill abides per 2 Timothy 2:11-13. If you doubt 2 Timothy 2:13, Paul gave an example of one kind of former believers and yet he said nevertheless... which to me is saying that foundation cannot be removed as it shall stand having His seal of adoption for why the call to depart from iniquity even goes out to former believers.

There is a problem with your application then when you read 2 Timothy 2:11-13 as that is one of the faithful sayings in the N.T.

2 Timothy 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Would you say those caught in the snare of the devil are abiding in Him? And yet Paul is saying we are to reach out to them in ministry on the chance that God is peradventuring to "recover" some from the snare of the devil.

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Not cast out of His kingdom of Heaven but then you have to discern how the least are still in His kingdom being what they are for how they are in Matthew 5:19 and how vessels unto dishonor are those that did not depart from iniquity & yet still in His House per 2 Timothy 2:18-21.. even former believers.

What makes a vessel unto dishonor a vessel unto dishonor but still be in His House? The same way the least are still n the kingdom of heaven for doing what they had done.

Have you ever sinned? Would you consider that as not abiding in Him at that moment? Has not Jesus taught us to pray to the Father to ask for forgiveness? Did not the apostle John clarified that we are not to sin but if we did, we have an Advocate? 1 John 2:1-2 Did not John address those who walked in darkness to repent & walk in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son for how His blood also cleanses us from sins and not just by confessing them to Him? 1 John 1:3-10

Are you viewing discipleship or running that race as a means to obtain salvation by? If so, I can only pray He will lead you to discern this application of yours again since those left behind are still saved as the least in the kingdom of heaven and as the vessels unto dishonor that are still in His House. We can only live as His disciples as saved. we can only run that race as saved. We need him in us so we can look to Him daily to help us lay aside every weight & sin in following Him as His disciple all the way Home to the Marriage supper above which is to His glory for we are the works of His hands as the crowns are His crowning achievements in us as those crowns we wear glorifies Him & His workmanship perfected by Him in us in Heaven..

 

And yet scripture says otherwise.

Mark 10:13 And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them. 14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. 15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

Matthew 11;25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

You may have a hard time defending this view when it can be seen that discipleship or running that race is for obtaining salvation and thus works is necessary by continuing to abide in Him to be saved per your application.

So discernment is needed here as well in hw the scripture is to be applied without opposing the other scripture..

Those who get left behind will perish when that fire comes on the earth, but as they incur a physical death, their spirit are still saved.

1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

It is that day of judgment for when believers are left behind when Jesus sends that fire on earth on those saints for not being ready in Luke 12:40-49.

Only the works are burned off of that foundation as that foundation remains forever as laid by Christ Jesus. The spirit is still saved but that physical body shall be destroyed as death will come when Jesus sends that fire on earth; Revelations 8:7 & 2 Peter 3:3-12.

 

@AustinC

John 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Again, only the Lord can show you by His words what applies to salvation and what applies to discipleship which is not about obtaining salvation but the firstfruits of the resurrection since not every saved believer will be ready in spite of His warnings to be ready or else..

No one can run that race or be His disciple unless they are saved. With Him being in us as saved to be able to run which is to be done still by grace of God & by faith in Jesus Christ BUT as our Good Shepherd as we are to look to Him to help us lay aside every weight & sin in running that race for the high prize of our calling when the Bridegroom comes.

 

Care to explain 1 Corinthians 3:10-17? Look at the consequence for defiling the temple of God which is physical death in 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 and yet the spirit is still saved per 1 Corinthians 3:15 in regards to that day when God judges His House by fire per 1 Corinthians 3:13.

Explain how if the church do not repent, they will be cast into the bed of the coming great tribulation per Revelation 2:18-25

It is there.

There is tribulation where false prophets have arisen in great numbers in the latter days we are living in..

Then there is the great tribulation which occurs after the rapture event that if the church is not ready as found abiding in Him is why God will judge His House first at the rapture event per 1 Peter 4:17-19 as He is faithful to keep the souls of His saints that are left behind to suffer what is coming on the earth.

 

Except John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

In context of that chapter of how I discerned saved believers climbing up another way as led astray for following a stranger's voice; seeking another baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues which is never interpreted & assumed for private use as they seek this from the Holy Spirit Himself which is climbing up another way.

That is why Jesus keeps repeating that He is the door in how to approach God the Father by in worship, fellowship, and prayer in having the abundant life with God.to avoid the spirits of the antichrists ; the stranger's voice.

Was not 1 Timothy 4:1-2 & 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 prophesied? Did not Paul said it was happening in his day in 2 Thessalonians 2:7? Did not Paul testify to a damnation ( vessels unto dishonor ) for believing the lie for why God permitted that strong delusion to occur in 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 ? Did not Paul reminded them when they had received the sanctification of the Spirit & the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15 in reminding the believers of the tradition taught of us; hence Jesus being the door in for this reproof towards that apostasy?

Did not Paul commanded us to withdraw from them in 2 Thessalonians 3:1-7 and yet not to treat them as the enemy, but admonish them as brothers still in 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15?

Then that is why Jesus must bring them because although left behind for being workers of iniquity, they are still our brothers and thus still saved, but shall be resurrected later on after the great tribulation as the least in the kingdom of heaven per Matthew 5:19 and as the vessels unto dishonor in His House that can never be that vessel unto honor in His House because once that door is closed to the Marriage Supper in Heaven, nobody else can have it after that; thus a damnation like the prodigal son who lost his inheritance for wild living and can never get it back but still son.

That is how other scripture aligns with how I am applying John 10:16 for why it says He must bring them. even though they were not originally of the fold that followed His voice, but they will hear Him then as they shall be of the one fold & one shepherd.

 

I do not want to be left behind, brother, and I am placing all my hopes in Him as my Good Shepherd to abide in Him & His words inn following Him. So I am not justifying any sinful living on earth. No.

However, in regards to your application, please address Matthew 5:19 as it does seem to oppose it as if there is only one class of citizens in heaven

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I believe the least become least as being left behind for why they are also known as vessels unto dishonor but yetthey are still in His House for failing to depart from iniquity per 2 Timothy 2:18-21 for why even former believers are called to depart from iniquity as well.