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The earth is the center of creation!

Discussion in 'Creation vs. Evolution' started by Travelsong, Jul 13, 2003.

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  1. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    Nope -- and what you 'believe' or 'would believe' has nothing to do with it! The Bible uses terminology that expresses what is seen from earth. However, if you read the links, you will also find that the math -- as done from earth -- shows that the geocentric model is not correct. That does not change the way we view things, however! Or the way they have been viewed for a long time.

    I don't know how much more clearly I can explain it. I do suggest you read the links, though.
     
    #61 Helen, Jul 18, 2003
  2. Travelsong

    Travelsong Guest

    ...and I don't know how much more clearly it can be explained to you. Yes, the Bible read literally indicates that it does confirm a geocentric model. It doesn't just use terminology to describe sunsets and sunrises, it also describes the sun in motion around the earth.The only reason, and I mean the only reason you view Scripture as figurative language with respect to the relationship of the sun and the earth is because science has made it necessary.I have no idea why you wish to dance around this issue, but the plain truth is the plain truth.There simply is no reason for you to ignore that elephant in your living room.
     
    #62 Travelsong, Jul 18, 2003
  3. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    And there is no reason for you to ignore that people refer to things the way they see them. A number of people have used biblical terminology to support geocentrism, but it only supports it as much as our weathermen do today when they tell us what time the sun rises and sets!
     
    #63 Helen, Jul 18, 2003
  4. Travelsong

    Travelsong Guest

    Absolutely Helen. What you are ignoring is that there is a reason why we know the various Biblical writers as you put it "refer to things the way they see them". It's called science. Without science we would all still believe that the sun revolved around the earth.We would all believe that the writers of Scripture were making literal statements about the nature of the universe, when in fact all they were doing is as you said, referring to things the way they saw them.

    The bridge that allowed the transition in thinking from a literal interpretation to a non-literal interpretation was science. Nothing else. It wasn't some sudden and spontaneous reinterpretation of Scripture. The great leaders of our body didn't one day decide to review their understanding of the relevant passages. They caved to the pressure of science. Our understanding of what Scripture is telling us has been shaped by our understanding of the world and universe around us. You can fight it and fight it and fight it totoh and nail, but there it remains right in front of you.All that you have to do at this point is acknowledge it. obfuscation benefits no one.
     
    #64 Travelsong, Jul 18, 2003
  5. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    Oh Glory! What I am trying to say is that Scripture does not say one thing scientifically about it! It was science that claimed geocentricity and then science that claimed heliocentricity. People just used the Bible to try to support what they thought. But the Bible is not saying anything about it!

    The Bible simply describes the way the sun and moon look via the earth. Taking appearances as literal reality (in reading it or otherwise) is known to lead to error. The Bible makes no pretense of presenting the scientific relationship between the earth and the sun. If you want to read it that way, fine, but it was science which first said one thing and then said another. The Bible just talks about how it is seen. If you are going to credit (and rightfully so) science with heliocentricity, then you will also have to blame science (and rightly so) for geocentricity.

    Science changes with added data -- hopefully!

    Meanwhile, the sun still rises and sets.
     
    #65 Helen, Jul 18, 2003
  6. The Galatian

    The Galatian Active Member

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    But Martin Luther asserted that scripture required that the Earth not move. In fact, it says the Earth doesn't move.

    But it does.

    It's only a problem for those who put a literal interpretation on it.
     
    #66 The Galatian, Jul 19, 2003
  7. timothy 1769

    timothy 1769 New Member

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    hey, maybe the earth IS the unmovable center of the universe. is it truly impossible, or does it just make the necessary math and physics harder?
     
    #67 timothy 1769, Jul 19, 2003
  8. Meatros

    Meatros New Member

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    I gave 18 + examples (18 links, in which some links had up to 5 separate examples) and you pick two, neither one you really give much of a reason as to why they "don't count".
     
    #68 Meatros, Jul 19, 2003
  9. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    Galatian, get over your hangup with Luther. He did not write the Bible. He did, contrary to the Roman Catholic church, however, decide to pay closer attention to it!

    Meatros, you stay with what you think. Don't worry about what was really going on. But the next time you describe something by its appearance to you, be very careful -- someone might thing you mean it literally....
     
    #69 Helen, Jul 19, 2003
  10. The Galatian

    The Galatian Active Member

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    No, but he did exercise editorial rights, in trimming to his liking. Well, almost. He never persuaded his followers that James had to go, too.

    Perhaps that wasn't a good thing, if that led him to think that the Bible says the Earth doesn't move in a literal sense.

    You do agree that the Earth moves, do you not?
     
    #70 The Galatian, Jul 19, 2003
  11. Meatros

    Meatros New Member

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    Actually Helen, the evidence is against you on this as well (as with evolution); I *used* to be a YEC. I used to be a rather loud one to.

    Am I any longer? No. So, once again, you are wrong Helen.
     
    #71 Meatros, Jul 19, 2003
  12. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    LOL -- am not wrong because you are no longer YEC! You were YEC for the wrong reasons. You are not evolutionist for the wrong reasons.

    Hopefully, with time, you'll get to some real reasons. Either way...
     
    #72 Helen, Jul 19, 2003
  13. timothy 1769

    timothy 1769 New Member

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    travelsong, i'm a fundamentalist with a capital f, and i grant your point.
     
    #73 timothy 1769, Jul 19, 2003
  14. Meatros

    Meatros New Member

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    Pretending you know me? :rolleyes:
     
    #74 Meatros, Jul 20, 2003
  15. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    ...only from your posts... I'm responding to what you are saying and what that indicates about your knowledge, maturity, and character. If what you are presenting is not a good picture of you, please change your presentation.
     
    #75 Helen, Jul 20, 2003
  16. ColoradoFB

    ColoradoFB New Member

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    Click to view: Pale Blue Dot Photo

    Upon seeing a photo of the Earth from the Voyager spacecraft, as a few tiny pixels in a vast sea of space, Dr. Carl Sagan made an observation that gives us much to think about:


    Pale Blue Dot Photo
     
    #76 ColoradoFB, Jul 20, 2003
  17. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    Yes, and of all the billions of fish alive in the seas and lakes and ponds and aquariums, there are eight silly little ones of almost no dollar value whatever which I care for very much because they belong to us.

    Amazing, isn't it?
     
    #77 Helen, Jul 20, 2003
  18. Travelsong

    Travelsong Guest

    All that you touch
    All that you see
    All that you taste
    All you feel
    All that you love
    All that you hate
    All you distrust
    All you save
    All that you give
    All that you deal
    All that you buy,
    beg, borrow or steal
    All you create
    All you destroy
    All that you do
    All that you say
    All that you eat
    And everyone you meet
    All that you slight
    And everyone you fight
    All that is now
    All that is gone
    All that's to come
    and everything under the sun is in tune
    but the sun is eclipsed by the moon.


    "There is no dark side of the moon really.
    Matter of fact it's all dark."
     
    #78 Travelsong, Jul 20, 2003
  19. timothy 1769

    timothy 1769 New Member

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    ah, good ol' roger. let's all pray for his salvation.

    set the controls for the heart of the son.....
     
    #79 timothy 1769, Jul 21, 2003
  20. Meatros

    Meatros New Member

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    Sure you are Helen. You know, the only people I see you chastising are the evolutionists on this board. I haven't seen you *once* chastise the people who are actually *lieing* about other members (among other things). So if it makes you feel all good inside for picking at my frustration, then I say good for you, I hope you enjoy it.

    Keep in mind that you are picking the plank out of my eyes while avoiding your own, or do you think you are being entirely mature on this board?
     
    #80 Meatros, Jul 21, 2003
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