1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Are Confessions of Faith biblical? Should Churches use them?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Mikey, Jun 30, 2021.

?

Confessions/Statements of Faith are useful to use.

Poll closed Jul 21, 2021.

  1. Agree - Everyone uses one even if they say so or not

    6 vote(s)
    54.5%

  2. False - No creed but the bible!

    5 vote(s)
    45.5%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 1 of 10
  1. Mikey

    Mikey Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2018
    Messages:
    765
    Likes Received:
    112
    Faith:
    Baptist
    WHY HAVE A STATEMENT OF FAITH

    Is there a biblical argument for the existence and use of creeds, confessions, and statements of faith by church? That is, why does a church have the authority to require of its members subscription to a document outside of the Bible? Or "No creed but the Bible"? To answer that question I will highlight several presuppositions behind and implications from the New Testament as it relates to false teachers and the proper use of doctrine.

    The authority of scripture is not what false teachers often deny.
    In Paul’s pastoral epistles we don’t see any false teachers debating Paul about the authority of scripture. Rather, the authority of scripture is assumed by both parties. However, Paul makes clear that by confessing invalid interpretations, those false teachers have swerved from the faith of the Bible (e.g., 1 Tim 1:19-20; 4:1-3; 2 Tim 2:15-18).

    Paul assumes there are false interpretations of scripture.
    Related to the previous point, Paul assumes that there are valid and invalid interpretations of scripture. We must seek to “rightly handle” the Bible (1 Tim 2:15), and avoid leading people into “further ungodliness” by contorting scripture in an unbiblical way (1 Tim 2:16). There are right and wrong ways to read scripture, which

    is a claim that many postmodern sensibilities would find distasteful.

    Confessions help clarify biblical truth by affirming and negating the validity of various interpretations of scripture.
    Confessions help churches teach their members how to both spot and avoid those invalid interpretations about which Paul warned his readers. For example, Paul urges the church in Thessolonika to “So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter” (2 Thess 2:15). Paul has given them a theological interpretive framework and a body of doctrine in the form of his written and spoken tradition.

    False teachers are crafty and cunning; they will use biblical language in inventive ways to undermine the very truth that they claim to defend. Confessions allow for the collective wisdom of the church throughout history to be used to edify the saints with biblical truth, to expose false teaching, and to protect against heresy.

    Confessing the faith with a summary of biblical doctrine follows the biblical example.
    Several passages in scripture offer us examples of the early church’s confessional summaries that were crafted to clarify valid and invalid interpretations of biblical truth. As D. Matthew Allen writes:

    “In 1 Corinthians 15:3-5, Paul declared: “For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve” (ESV). In 1 Timothy 3:16, he wrote: “Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory” (ESV). These are early creedal statements. Creedal fragments are also found in Philippians 2:6-11, 1 Peter 3:18 and 1 John 2:22, 5:1, among other passages. The writer of Hebrews instructs us to “hold fast our confession” and “the confession of our hope” (Heb. 4:14, 10:23; 3:1; ESV).”

    Thus we see that having a confession of faith helps clarify what interpretations of scripture are valid and invalid based on the collected wisdom found in church history. Having creeds and confessions also follows several examples that we see found in scripture. Confessions enable congregations to catechize their congregations while at the same time provide an apologetic against false teachings.
    - Biblical Support for Creeds, Confessions, and Statements of Faith


    Agree or Disagree?
     
    #1 Mikey, Jun 30, 2021
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Yes, they are biblical and a helpful barrier or fence, used to protect the flock.
    If it is a solid document, it can be called upon to bring unity to believers
    A false church can have a statement of faith, but can quickly be shown to be false.
    I have not seen any who post against the documents be able to answer them, not once.
    Recent error concerning the proper place of works could have been avoided by learning such documents in detail.
     
    #2 Iconoclast, Jun 30, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
  3. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    451
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Most of the early Christian "Creeds" have the heresy of "subordinationism", of Jesus Christ from God the Father, in the Godhead from eternity; and the Holy Spirit from the Father and Jesus Christ. This is against the Bible which Teaches that The Three Persons are equally YHWH, and therefore there cannot be any Person that is "greater" than the other.

    The "Confessions", as in the WCF, also are man-made, theological biased, that also have heresies in them.

    The Holy Bible, in its 66 Books, in the Original Autographs, IS ALONE THE Infallible, Inerrant, God-breathed, Word of Almighty God, represented in Versions like the KJV, NKJV, NASB, ESV, etc.
     
    #3 SavedByGrace, Jun 30, 2021
  4. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    "SavedByGrace,



    [The Holy Bible, in its 66 Books, in the Original Autographs, IS ALONE THE Infallible, Inerrant, God-breathed, Word of Almighty God, represented in Versions like the KJV, NKJV, NASB, ESV, etc.]

    which is exactly what the 1689 teaches.
     
    #4 Iconoclast, Jun 30, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
  5. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    451
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I am referring to things like the heresy that God was "pleased to permit", the fall of humans! This is BLASPHEMY!

    OED says of "pleased", "Affected by feelings of satisfaction or pleasure; contented, gratified, in good humour"
     
    #5 SavedByGrace, Jun 30, 2021
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    are you suggesting that God did not allow the fall
     
    #6 Iconoclast, Jun 30, 2021
  7. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    451
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I am saying that the language in this "confession", that says God was PLEASED to "allow" the fall, is blasphemy. HOW can God ever be PLEASED with man sinning against Him??? There is no way that this term used, can describe God ALLOWING man to sin.
     
    #7 SavedByGrace, Jun 30, 2021
  8. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    If you " Read the whole confessional statement it uses the word permitted and it tells you why it used that word. Namely God did it for his own glory
     
    #8 Iconoclast, Jun 30, 2021
  9. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    451
    Faith:
    Baptist
    God permitted the fall for His Glory? Are you serious? Can you provide ONE verse from the Bible?
     
    #9 SavedByGrace, Jun 30, 2021
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,745
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    As we can see from the above exchange, the problem with published creeds or confessions is that they reflect fallible human understanding of scripture.

    But we should certainly know what we believe, thus we all should endeavor to create our own "what we believe" statement. By creating our document, we grow in our own understanding, and reinforce the basis for our rejecting the bogus views from the past.

    Here is mine from about two years ago:
    Layman's Confession of Faith
     
    #10 Van, Jun 30, 2021
  11. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    10,544
    Likes Received:
    1,558
    Faith:
    Baptist
    At its best, a confession is a declaration of what an individual, church, association, etc. believes that the Bible teaches. Unless it is wrong to confess what we believe, it is not wrong to have a confession of faith. Following the principle of confessing one's beliefs does not mean that everything confessed is biblical. Therefore, any confession of faith must be constantly brought back to the word of God to see whether it is so. On the other hand, some of those who confess to only believe the Bible will never clearly indicate just what they believe. It becomes an escape or hiding place away from the beliefs being known.
     
    #11 rlvaughn, Jun 30, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    451
    Faith:
    Baptist
    meaning exactly what?
     
    #12 SavedByGrace, Jun 30, 2021
  13. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Indeed acts2,;23 and a,cts 4;27 and 28
     
    #13 Iconoclast, Jun 30, 2021
  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    451
    Faith:
    Baptist
    yeah, and even you have you heresy!

    Of God's Covenant – God’s eternal covenant was to provide eternal life for those of His choosing, based on crediting their faith as righteousness, keeping His covenant of love

    Which can be taken as "limited atonement"!
     
    #14 SavedByGrace, Jun 30, 2021
  15. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    451
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And WHERE in these passages, does it say that "God was PLEASED to permit the fall"? Give it up, as you will never be able to justify this utter nonsense!
     
    #15 SavedByGrace, Jun 30, 2021
  16. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    10,544
    Likes Received:
    1,558
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Meaning some people claim they believe the Bible, but are very slippery when explaining what they believe the Bible teaches. Surely you have run across some of that type in your experience?
     
    #16 rlvaughn, Jun 30, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2021
    • Agree Agree x 2
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,745
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Folks note my statement was edited, the supporting verse - James 2:5 - was not included. The verse clearly shows God's individual election is based on some of the characteristics of the individual chosen, thus when chosen living in the world, and poor to the world, and rich in faith, thus having heard the word of God during their lifetime, and heirs of the promise to those who love God. No rational analysis would say this can be taken as Calvinism's "Limited Atonement!"
     
    #17 Van, Jun 30, 2021
  18. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Is the passage clearly speak of God's determined counsel and foreknowledge. Well the foreknowledge is the sending of the Son,and the incarnation to accomplish redemption for the elect. And that's why the father spoke this is my my Beloved Son in whom I well pleased.
     
    #18 Iconoclast, Jun 30, 2021
  19. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    451
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I think that you don't understand the English language! WHERE do you get God was PLEASED for the fall of humans, from ANY verse in the entire Bible? You are forcing verses to say what the do NOT, like "my Beloved Son in whom I well pleased", as IF this is the same as the fall!!!
     
    #19 SavedByGrace, Jun 30, 2021
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Would add third option, that while the Bible only is the inspired and supreme authority for all doctrines and practices, creeds and Confessions are useful tools!
     
    #20 Yeshua1, Jun 30, 2021
Page 1 of 10
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...