1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

The African Ancestors of Jesus

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Humble Disciple, Jul 27, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,635
    Likes Received:
    1,608
    Faith:
    Baptist
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    34,628
    Likes Received:
    3,698
    Faith:
    Baptist
    In a way, that is what happened. That said, it is an error to pretend Jesus was of African heritage. His lineage is fairly well documented in the Bible (He was Jewish).

    Think of it this way, if Jesus were an American today our culture would be demanding He renounce His "White privilege" (even though there is no evidence of White or Black ancestry).

    There is a reason Jesus was ethnically Jewish. Scripture goes in detail establishing this. There are no "non-Hebrew" ancestors listed in Mary's line (or Joseph's, for that matter). God chose a people because they were the weakest to demonstrate His glory.

    The question to ask is why some feel the need to create a "Jesus myth" that incorporates their racial identity (wheather White or Black). I have seen this mentality with the KKK in the late 70's (insisting Jesus was White and not Jewish) and more recently (over the past couple of decades) with some Black groups. I understand the desire to incorporate Christ into a cultural group with which one identifies - BUT this is wrong. It is backwards. Rather than changing Christ into our racial group we are changed into His (into a chosen race of believers).

    List the non-Hebrew ancestors of Mary if you don't believe me. There are none.

    This would not be important except for two things -

    1. A White or Black ancestor of Christ would invalidate Scripture (it would add to Scripture and make Christinity a contemporary "Christiam myth").

    2. A non-Hebrew ancestory would compromise the a major OT theme regarding a "chosen race" through which a broader people would be grafted in as branches were discarded.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    13,314
    Likes Received:
    1,751
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Rehab the Harlot and Ruth are both non-Hebrew and in the genealogy of Jesus. One traces His geology all the way to Adam, before there was a Hebrew people.

    peace to you
     
  4. Humble Disciple

    Humble Disciple Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2021
    Messages:
    742
    Likes Received:
    38
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Daniel 10:6
    …his arms and legs had the color of burnished bronze, and the sound of his speech was like the noise of a multitude.

    Revelation 1:15
    His feet were like burnished bronze, refined in a furnace, and his voice was like the roar of many waters.

    [​IMG]

    The historical, Biblical Jesus, with "burnished bronze" skin, whose foremothers were Tamar, Rahab, Ruth and Bathsheba, loves you.

    [​IMG]
     
    #24 Humble Disciple, Jul 28, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2021
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    34,628
    Likes Received:
    3,698
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I agree ancestory goes past Abraham. But with the Hebrew people the lineage is typically to Abraham and points to a specific people (descendents of Abraham through Jacob).

    Ruth was from Moab (they a descendent of Lot).

    Rehab was a Canaanite (there is no Cannanite race).

    They were not Hebrews, however ethnically they were Semitic (they were the same race....i.e , skin color....but not of the same nationality...i.e., not descendents of Jacob).
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    34,628
    Likes Received:
    3,698
    Faith:
    Baptist
    "Burnished bronze" (or "brass") "when it has been refined in a furnace" (Rev. 1:15) is bright. Burnished bronze refers to the state of the metal (polished). In the furnace it is bright white. It is a refining process used in making bronzed (often religious) items.

    The passage is referring to God's glory, not His racial identity.

    In the 70's I saw the KKK take the same method of interpretation to make Jesus White. Racial appropriation is never a good thing.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    34,628
    Likes Received:
    3,698
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I do not mean to sound "anti" here, and hope I don't. I know there are good people caught up in racism and-or racial identity issues (whether White, Black, or Purple).

    It is natural for people to identify and even unite through things they have in common (for the lost - cultural identity, economic states, race, etc., and for the Christian, Christ).

    And I realize there is still the World in us (the "old man). But we need to be in the process of killing this "old man" rather than embracing him.

    This thread brings to mind racism of the past where racist groups were anti-Semitic, presented Christ as a White man, and Black people under the curse of Cain. It was ignorant, foolish, and really racist - the "old man" (sin) alive and well in the hearts of otherwise decent people (and often, Christians).

    Now I see this exact same ignorant foolishness, really racism, springing up in racial identity politics which interprets everything (including the ancient past) through the superficial lens of race.

    The difference between White washing and Black washing is black and white. So is the similarly. Literally - they are the same sin.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    34,628
    Likes Received:
    3,698
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The "Burnished bronze" is a reference, BTW, to the Temple (pots, ect.), referring to material and refining.

    Here is an example:

    images.jpeg

    What we refer to as the color "burnished bronze" is antiqued bronze. But in Scripture "burnished bronze" was a polished refined bronze....very much like polished brass (which is a fairly close material).

    Those who have seen polished bronze candle holders know what I am talking about here. In color we'd say white if in the furnace and gold once polished.
     

    Attached Files:

    #28 JonC, Jul 28, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2021
    • Useful Useful x 1
  9. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    13,314
    Likes Received:
    1,751
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Those references were of Jesus glorified. I’ve heard people argue that in Rev His hair was “white, like wool” meant His hair was short and curly like a black man’s hair. The context is purity and wisdom (white hair) with “wool” simply a comparison of how white it was.

    The same with the reference to burnished bronze refined in the furnace. It is a reference to purity or strength…. to Christ glory not His race.

    If scripture intended to focus on race as you are, it would have mentioned an area in Africa.

    peace to you
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Mercy.
     
  11. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2014
    Messages:
    13,836
    Likes Received:
    2,478
    Faith:
    Baptist
    There you go, using facts again. Facts spoil good rhetoric.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    34,628
    Likes Received:
    3,698
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Facts??? We don't need no stinking facts! :Biggrin
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    20,155
    Likes Received:
    2,988
    Faith:
    Baptist
    ...is where you go to get well. Did they have those back then?:D

    Joshua 2:1
     
    #33 kyredneck, Jul 31, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2021
    • Like Like x 1
  14. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    13,314
    Likes Received:
    1,751
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Lol, I wouldn’t know anything about that. I suspect my auto correct spell check made the change and I didn’t notice.

    peace to you
     
  15. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2000
    Messages:
    15,371
    Likes Received:
    2,405
    Faith:
    Baptist
    As the OP is now perma-banned, this thread is now closed.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...