Featured Hebrews 11:11

Thanks for featuring this thread. Discussion of translation choices, including which choice best conveys the intended message is important to the body of Christ.

 

Yes, the third post in this thread presented an alternate view:

How did this word which literally means "throw or cast down" come to be rendered "foundation?" Did the Vulgate mistranslate it? Yes. Did Wycliffe render from the Vulgate into English the phrase in at least two verses "from the making of the world" or "from the beginning of the world?" Yes. Then in 1537 the Matthews Bible went with "since the world began." The Geneva Bible and Bishops Bible introduced "the foundation of the world." The KJV followed suit and we were off and running on the wrong track, if my source is valid. Can anyone confirm?​

To date, I do not think anyone has researched and confirmed this view. To cast down seed suggests the beginning of a new circumstance, but "seed" is not part of the word, thus cast down does not suggest "beginning." And cast down does not include the word meaning foundation (Greek themelios G2310) and therefore cast down does not mean "foundation." OTOH, cast down, strike down, knock down are all translations used to convey the subjugation of the wicked in both the noun and verb forms of the word.

Which meaning does your complete lexicon ascribe to the verb kataballō (G2598) for 2 Corinthians 4:9 and Revelation 12:10? Looking at all the English translations of 2 Corinthians 4:9, I found about 20 examples of struck down, about 10 each of cast down and knocked down, but not a single case of either beginning or foundation!!

 

Let us consider Psalms 37:14. Here is the NASB rendering of the Hebrew text.

The wicked have drawn the sword and bent their bow
To cast down the afflicted and the needy,
To slay those who are upright in conduct.​

In the above verse the Hebrew "napal" (H5307) is translated directly into English as cast down. Now what is interesting is how the LXX translated this same Hebrew word into Greek, well before the meaning was claimed to be beginning or foundation! Your are right, the Greek word is our verb kataballo.

Ditto for Proverbs 7:26.

 

Someone should look at those Old Testament verses that refer to the foundation of the earth. Could all or most of these verses actually be referring to the land under the inhabitants? Food for thought...

 

1 Samuel 2:8 NIV
He raises the poor from the dust and lifts the needy from the ash heap; he seats them with princes and has them inherit a throne of honor. “For the foundations of the earth are the Lord’s; on them he has set the world.

Here is an example of a translation treating a Hebrew phrase as if it referred to the physics of gravitational support. But back then, this is a doubtful line of reasoning. But in the Renaissance, such thinking burned bright.

How might this phrase be translated accurately? The Hebrew word translated usually as either "foundations" or "pillars" refers to something that sets up something. Like columns holding the roof up. And the Hebrew word translated as "earth" also refers to the inhabitants of an area.

How about "the support systems of humanity are the LORD's, on them He has set the inhabitants." Note in the preceding sentence, three support systems are mentioned, dust, ash heap, throne. Context is king...

 

Two versions of the Hebrew phrase, usually translated as "foundations of the earth" can be found at Psalms 82:5, Proverbs 8:29, Isaiah 24:18, Isaiah 40:21, Jeremiah 31:37, and Micah 6:2. Consider whether "support systems of humanity" might better present the actual message.

 

Psalms 82:5 (NIV)
“The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing. They walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken.

Or:

The 'gods' know nothing, they understand nothing. Thy walk about in darkness, all the support systems of humanity are shaken.

Clearly God's rule and judgment of humanity are the topics of Psalm 82!

Here are other translations:
TLB and TPT
But you continue in your darkness and ignorance while the foundations of society are shaken to the core!

And the ERV has "their world is falling down around them." And the EXB has "while the world is falling apart."

Again, the idea seems to be that what society is built upon is falling apart!

 

Proverbs 8:29 NASB
When He set a boundary for the sea
So that the water would not violate His command,
When He marked out the foundations of the earth;

Here God laid out the regions for the inhabitants. The areas that supported the peoples. See Acts of the Apostles 17:26 This could refer to something as general as the line between oceans, seas, lakes, rivers, and land suitable for habitation.

 

Isaiah 24:18 NIV
Whoever flees at the sound of terror will fall into a pit; whoever climbs out of the pit will be caught in a snare. The floodgates of the heavens are opened, the foundations of the earth shake.

Once again, it appears the underpinnings of society are being disrupted. The Hebrew word translated "shake" refers to the status quo being altered, and accompanied with fear. The idea is God's action causing disruption of human habitation.

 

Isaiah 40:21 Do you not know? Have you not heard?
Has God not been declared to you from the beginning?
Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?

Here General Revelation is in view, understanding from what God has provided, "that God supports humanity."

 

Jeremiah 31:37
Thus says the LORD,
“If the heavens above can be measured
And the foundations of the earth searched out below,
Then I will also cast off all the offspring of Israel
For all that they have done,” declares the LORD.

Here the inhabited regions of humanity are in view. The idea is people survey the region and determine areas best suited for "regions supporting habitation."

 

Micah 6:2 “Listen, you mountains, to the indictment of the LORD,
And you enduring foundations of the earth,
Because the LORD has a case against His people;
Even with Israel He will dispute.

Here "mountains and enduring or strong foundations" both refer to the presumed holy inhabitants of high and lower ground.