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Christians and violence

Discussion in 'Polls Forum' started by Alcott, Jun 17, 2005.

?

Jesus' rampage against the temple sellers/crooks-- our example?

  1. Jesus, and He alone on earth, had the authority to perform this violent act

    11 vote(s)
    28.9%

  2. If we are "consumed by zeal" for what we regard as the House of God, we are allowed to become violen

    1 vote(s)
    2.6%

  3. Since we have no temple today in the sense of a limited presence of God, this 'example' does not app

    1 vote(s)
    2.6%

  4. Since our <i>bodies</i> are the temple in the NT age, we may deal violently with anyone who "messes

    1 vote(s)
    2.6%

  5. We have no authority at all to be violent, even in defense of what is holy to our God

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  6. If in a worship service, a gang comes in, throwing objects and spray-painting, we have no authority

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  7. Jesus wouldn't really have gotten violent-- the scripture must have it wrong

    20 vote(s)
    52.6%

  8. I have a different view on this than any of these options

    4 vote(s)
    10.5%

  9. No answer

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    The subject of Christians becoming violent has come up in a few forums recently, and there seems to be some disagreement as to purpose, justification and forgivability of being violent. Let's compile and contrast our views on this.
     
    #1 Alcott, Jun 17, 2005
  2. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    I see two other people have voted but have not made comments.

    Here's what I think:
    Jesus cleansing the temple was not a violent act. It was a physical act, but not violent. He did not hurt anyone physically, for one thing.

    I think hitting someone on the cheek was an insult, so when Jesus said to turn the other cheek, it means not to return insult for insult. I put my answer down as not to seek revenge.

    The last section was the hardest. Outside of the war questions, I do not see why someone would be justified in killing someone unless that person was trying to kill them or kill someone else. However, I do think self-defense is biblical.
     
    #2 Marcia, Jun 17, 2005
  3. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    Jesus' "cleansing" of the temple, IMO, was similar to an acted-out prophecy. If a prophet of God were called to do the same, it would have been permissible.
     
    #3 StefanM, Jun 17, 2005
  4. Ben W

    Ben W Active Member
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    I am not so sure that I would label the turning over of the money changers tables as violent. If it was a band of Zealots that had run in there with the sword and killed or injured the money changers personally, that would be violent, but note that the act of Christ was not of a personal physical nature against a person's body.

    Incidently the money changers were Saduccees, Jesus had a discourse with the Pharisees for three years, yet when he attacked the Sadducees who ran the temple, He was dead within a week!
     
    #4 Ben W, Jun 17, 2005
  5. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    Where does scripture say there was no physical violence upon those trading in the temple? But whether there was or was not, if a singer came to your church and did a 'concert,' and had a table set up where he would later sell his recordings, and someone who equates that with 'turning the House of God into a market' ran up and threw over the table and scattered the money and CD's... would you not consider this violent?

    And your saying Jesus was "dead within a week" after the temple incident is not true. There were at least 2 such incidents, the first one in John 2:14-17, at least 2 Passovers before the one in which he was crucified.
     
    #5 Alcott, Jun 18, 2005
  6. Ben W

    Ben W Active Member
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    Bro Alcott,

    "Q"

    Because it is mentioned at the start of John does not mean it was an earlier incident over a later one.
     
    #6 Ben W, Jun 18, 2005
  7. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    You think so, huh? In John 2 we have the first 'cleansing the temple' incident, followed in John 3 by Jesus' meeting at night with Nicodemus, then in John 3:27, it begins "after this..." and describing the baptism of John the Baptist, who had been beheaded well before the Passover week in which Jesus was crucified.
     
    #7 Alcott, Jun 19, 2005
  8. TexasSky

    TexasSky Guest

    You forgot one of the greatest examles of "peacemaking" Christ gave - at the Garden when the soldiers came.

    You also failed to look at the examples of the disciples and apostles later.
     
    #8 TexasSky, Jun 19, 2005
  9. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    Let me guess here... You are against using violence in self-defense and think we should imitate the actions of non-retaliation against beatings, stonings, and imprisonment? I don't know if you have kids, but if a 9-year-old came up and started beating your 4-year-old, would you say "Hit him/her again" or would you shove the perpetrator off?
     
    #9 Alcott, Jun 19, 2005
  10. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

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    Defending one's home, family, and country, is quite acceptable, by whatever means necessary.
     
    #10 I Am Blessed 24, Jun 20, 2005
  11. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    I know most of us want to think so. But does this come from scripture? Or is it a worldly concept?
     
    #11 Alcott, Jun 20, 2005
  12. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman Active Member

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    hmmm.
     
    #12 SaggyWoman, Jul 26, 2005
  13. Petrel

    Petrel New Member

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    According to Old Testament law if you killed someone breaking into your house by night, you couldn't be charged with murder.

    I don't see how using violence to protect others could be considered wrong. If you saw a man beating a child to death, would you think you had done what you ought to if you merely called 911 and then yelled, "Hey! Stop!"
     
    #13 Petrel, Jul 26, 2005
  14. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

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    In the Bible, God not only sent armies to war to protect their homes, but He sent them out to conquer OTHER peoples and lands...
     
    #14 I Am Blessed 24, Jul 26, 2005
  15. rivers1222

    rivers1222 Member

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    If in a worship service, a gang comes in, throwing objects and spray-painting, we have no authority to physcially deter them
    ----------------------------
    Yep, I'm the knucklehead who misread the question and voted yes. Please correct for accurracy if possible.
     
    #15 rivers1222, Jul 26, 2005
  16. rivers1222

    rivers1222 Member

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    If in a worship service, a gang comes in, throwing objects and spray-painting, we have no authority to physcially deter them
    ----------------------------
    Yep, I'm the knucklehead who misread the question and voted yes. Please correct for accurracy if possible.
     
    #16 rivers1222, Jul 26, 2005
  17. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    In the Bible, God not only sent armies to war to protect their homes, but He sent them out to conquer OTHER peoples and lands... </font>[/QUOTE]This is true, but those were cases when God was initiating it and doing it for His specific purposes of creating Israel and giving them land.

    So, outside of self-defense, is it okay biblically speaking to invade another country, for example? Is being able to give our reasons for it good enough?
     
    #17 Marcia, Jul 26, 2005
  18. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    I based my responses on a few guidelines. First of all, there is NEVER any indication in Scripture that we are to personally defend ourselves. The one exception is the rape of a woman where she is expected to scream and struggle and try to prevent it. If she does not, it is assumed in the OT that she is willing and it is therefore adultery.

    But I have to admit if someone were holding a knife or gun to my head I would probably just try to survive the ordeal and not give reason to shoot or otherwise hurt me.

    However it is also Biblical to defend one's home and those around you, especially if they are weaker. It is also Biblical to obey constituted authorities and this means, if you are in any branch of the armed forces, to be willing to go to war for your country.

    I also voted yes that 'self defense' is responsible for more than its share of violence.
     
    #18 Helen, Jul 27, 2005
  19. Petrel

    Petrel New Member

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    Yes. I hate to invoke Godwin's Rule, but think of World War II!
     
    #19 Petrel, Jul 27, 2005
  20. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Yes. I hate to invoke Godwin's Rule, but think of World War II! </font>[/QUOTE]But didn't we get in the war because of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor? We didn't enter WW 2 because of Hitler. (BTW, my father fought in WW 2).
     
    #20 Marcia, Jul 28, 2005
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