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Saved by Grace Alone, Justified by Faith Alone

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by AustinC, Oct 14, 2021.

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  1. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Funny, do you ignore verses 4-7 in order to miss how faith comes after God has graciously saved? Come on Silverhair, be honest with the text.
     
    #121 AustinC, Oct 18, 2021
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  2. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    You hold onto Eph 2:4-7 but do you know whats missing the word FAITH. That is why you have to include vs 8-9 because that explains how and why you are saved. It's right there in the text.
    Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
    Eph 2:9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

    In these six verses the why and the how are laid out and we are also given the reason.

    How do you miss that when it is so clear. I have shown you other texts that should help you but you are determined to ignore them.

    through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace Rom 5:2

    Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace Rom 4:16

    Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith Gal 3:8

    God saves all those that trust in His son. That is the condition He has set. Austin you are not disagreeing with me you are disagreeing with God.
     
    #122 Silverhair, Oct 18, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
  3. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    It is interesting how you cannot grasp salvation by grace. Instead, you want it to be salvation by faith. Yet, Paul never tells us we are saved by faith. It is always saved by grace. We are justified by faith.
    Ephesians 2:4-7 points out that while we were dead, God made us alive. No one who is dead can have faith. God must make you alive first. This is the gracious act of salvation, which upon being saved is embraced by/through faith.
    Silverhair, you deny grace. We are at an impasse until you end your attempt to demand a requirement in order for God to save a person. Tou put shackles on God and make man the one who should be praised. Your theology is anathema to me.
     
    #123 AustinC, Oct 18, 2021
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  4. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    You never fail to miss what the text says. You can't even remember what I write. But then again perhaps it is because you don't want to admit that what I write is the truth and it is not what you want to see.
    You are to blind to see what I write and you are to blind to see what the text of scripture says. You are truly lost in your own world of self delusion.
     
    #124 Silverhair, Oct 19, 2021
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  5. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Why do you keep parroting on ther same erroneous mantra, justification by works, justification by works? The Scripture is plain: justification is by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8; Titus 3:4-5)
     
    #125 Martin Marprelate, Oct 19, 2021
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  6. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Ephesians 2:4-9 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

    Galatians 3:10-18 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith. To give a human example, brothers:even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

    Romans 8:1-4 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

    Romans 3:20-28 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
     
    #126 AustinC, Oct 19, 2021
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  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    All they have folks are false charges...
     
    #127 Van, Oct 19, 2021
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Paul stated that the unsaved receive not the spiritual things of God, correct?
     
    #128 Yeshua1, Oct 19, 2021
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God knows that none can and will accept Jesus as lord left to themselves, so he sent the Holy Spirit to make sure that all Christ died for have "saving faith"
     
    #129 Yeshua1, Oct 19, 2021
  10. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    I don't. I hold to the scriptural justification by faith, works, grace, blood of Christ, God, the whole enchilada.

    ...it's 'saved' in those passages not 'justified', but at least you never gommed it up by adding 'alone'.
     
    #130 kyredneck, Oct 19, 2021
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We are justified in the sight of God by His Grace, period, not of any works we do, period!
     
    #131 Yeshua1, Oct 19, 2021
  12. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Let's see; You believe in total depravity. You believe faith is a gift. You believe Gentiles are elect including you what ever you are. That's being a Calvinist IMO.
    MB
     
    #132 MB, Oct 19, 2021
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Anyone can post a string of false charges. And not one person of integrity will step forward and point out the charges are false.

    I have posted more than 100 times "total spiritual inability" (the T of the Tulip) is false doctrine.
    I have posted more than 100 times "the gift of faith" (the I of the Tulip) is false doctrine.
    I presented scripture which proves Gentiles are among the elect. You deny the very word of God.

    I am a one point Calvinist (OSAS) and a two point Arminian (Christ died for all humanity and Conditional Election for salvation) but reject the T,U,L and I of the TULIP. I reject that God chose individuals before creation for salvation.
     
    #133 Van, Oct 19, 2021
  14. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Your doctrines are just as false. You said"Nope. Our faith comes from God's" . We already have a measure of faith from we were created with it. It's increase is from hearing the Word preached.

    OSAS is not a Calvinist doctrine. Perseverance of the saint is there doctrine. By them persevering they work to keep there Salvation. It's called Lord Ship Salvation. You don't even know what you are saying and this is why you are so hateful.
    MB
     
    #134 MB, Oct 19, 2021
  15. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Now I know you were trying to make a point here but not sure why you think you have to tell me that salvation is a gift from God. We sure do not earn it do we.

    But where you are determined to avoid the text of scripture is when you deny that God requires that we believe in His son so that He can give us the gift of salvation. Faith is not a work which is something that you do not seem to be willing or able to grasp.

    What do you not understand about these verses? Will you not see what is right in front of you? You quote Eph 2:4-9 so I have to ask why do you ignore what it says. It is right there in the text "by grace you have been saved through faith"
    I even listed other verses that show the same thing yet you are determined to ignore them. Why? You may want to hold to the theological view that you now have but if you are shown that the bible does not support it then why do you continue to hold to it?

    From what you have written you have a problem seeing faith as not being a work. But the bible tells us that it is not and we have numerous verses that show that faith is required so why do you hold to that idea?
     
    #135 Silverhair, Oct 19, 2021
  16. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    So you do believe in justification by works. Just that the works are supported by the other things.
    BTW, I think you did a disservice to @Silverhair by claiming that he believes in justification by works.
    The second part of this is exactly right.
    So you agree that we are saved by grace through faith. That's good to know. But like the Roman Catholics you want to throw in a few works. At the point of justification, our good works are filthy rags before God. Christ justifies the ungodly (Romans 4:1-5; 5:6).
    Grace alone, Christ alone, faith alone, according to the Scriptures alone and to the glory of God alone (1 Corinthians 1:29).
     
    #136 Martin Marprelate, Oct 19, 2021
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  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    He does seems to be holding to the catholic take on James view of salvation!
     
    #137 Yeshua1, Oct 19, 2021
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Please stop posting gibberish. I did not say "Our faith comes from God's." That is an edit, a contextomy, a vicious misrepresentation of my view done on purpose to deceive.
    You can charge the Calvinists with a works based salvation till the cows come home, my view is OSAS and many Calvinists agree.
    Once again you have proven your character by your post.
     
    #138 Van, Oct 19, 2021
  19. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Martin what are those few good works you refer to?
     
    #139 Silverhair, Oct 19, 2021
  20. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I was referring to @kyredneck, who wrote
    He had previously voted your post #94 as a 'winner.' I don't read your post as holding to justification by works, but it seems that @kyredneck does so take it up with him.
    You are correct that works are the evidence for our justification (c.f. Genesis 22:12), but at the point of salvation they are of no help at all. Abraham was justified by grace through faith way back in Genesis 15:8, if not before (c.f. Hebrews 11:8).
     
    #140 Martin Marprelate, Oct 19, 2021
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