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Saved by Grace Alone, Justified by Faith Alone
- Thread starter AustinC
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Silverhair
Well-Known Member
That is a rather broad question, give a verse ref. the context for your question would be nice. God loves all people and really want the best for them,correct?
Not all.
Psalm 5:4-6 For you are not a God who delights in wickedness; evil may not dwell with you. The boastful shall not stand before your eyes; you hate all evildoers. You destroy those who speak lies; the Lord abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man.
Psalm 11:5-7 The Lord tests the righteous, but his soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence. Let him rain coals on the wicked; fire and sulfur and a scorching wind shall be the portion of their cup. For the Lord is righteous; he loves righteous deeds; the upright shall behold his face.
Malachi 1:2-4 “I have loved you,” says the Lord. But you say, “How have you loved us?” “Is not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the Lord. “Yet I have loved Jacob but Esau I have hated. I have laid waste his hill country and left his heritage to jackals of the desert.” If Edom says, “We are shattered but we will rebuild the ruins,” the Lord of hosts says, “They may build, but I will tear down, and they will be called ‘the wicked country,’ and ‘the people with whom the Lord is angry forever.’”
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
You seem to have a problem with the idea that God would actually love all of His creation not just a select few. But once again the bible doe not support your view.
But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Rom 5:8
...For there is no difference; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,... Rom 3:22-23
But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), Eph 2:4-5
Do you not agree that we are all sinners in need of a savior? The bible says we are and do indeed need one.
But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared,... Tit 3:4
For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1Ti 2:3-4
In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 1Jn 4:9-10
For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. 1Ti 4:10
Please note that Gods son died for all me not just some men.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,...Joh 3:16
And God was gracious in that He provided one for the whole world. Now that is an example of sacrificial love in that God would send His son to die for us sinners so that we could be saved through Him and by Him.
You keep telling me that you follow scripture, I trust you will do that now.
I notice you ignore the scripture that proves your universal statement is false. It also shows that your interpretation of "all" is incorrect. It's not a universal all. But, you couldn't accept that because your crutch would break. Instead, you walk around with massive inconsistencies and ignore anything that would shed light on your error.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Amazed how you always accuse me of ignoring scripture but then you do not want to address the text that I post. Really just look in the mirror for once. Well I guess you are really just determined to live in your self delusion.
Really do you mean that "all" really means elect, consider me shocked. Now why would I expect that from a Calvinist. But sorry I don't use the special Calvinist dictionary that you have.
Your Calvinist theology may suit you but I would rather just trust what the bible says. You really should try that, it would really open your eyes.
I can show you the truth but I cannot make you accept it.
Scripture answers your false assertion:
Psalm 5:4-6 For you are not a God who delights in wickedness; evil may not dwell with you. The boastful shall not stand before your eyes; you hate all evildoers. You destroy those who speak lies; the Lord abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man.
Psalm 11:5-6 The Lord tests the righteous, but his soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence. Let him rain coals on the wicked; fire and sulfur and a scorching wind shall be the portion of their cup.
Malachi 1:2-4 “I have loved you,” says the Lord. But you say, “How have you loved us?” “Is not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the Lord. “Yet I have loved Jacob but Esau I have hated. I have laid waste his hill country and left his heritage to jackals of the desert.” If Edom says, “We are shattered but we will rebuild the ruins,” the Lord of hosts says, “They may build, but I will tear down, and they will be called ‘the wicked country,’ and ‘the people with whom the Lord is angry forever.’”
Toward us...for us...
In Romans Paul differentiates between those who are justified by Christ by faith. Paul shows us from chapter 1-11 how God is a particular God who chooses and elects those who once were not justified, but now are justified by God through faith.
The word "us" makes this clear.
Indeed, both those who live under the law and those who do not know the law are both guilty of sin and are guilty. They are, by nature, damned by their own failure.
This perfectly shows that God chooses whom he wills. Notice how particular these verses are.
All the world is fallen in sin. We agree. There is none righteous, no not one.
You failed to quote the entire thing. Why?
Titus 3:1-7 Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people. For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another. But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
This passage destroys your assertion, Silverhair. Read it over and over until it gets past your prejudice.
Paul gives us clarity to what the "all" is referring to. Look at the whole and understand what you have failed to see.
1 Timothy 2:1-6 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.
Paul is reminding Timothy that God chooses from all humanity. God does not exclude those who are kings or in high positions. He saves them as well as the slaves, women and the poor. God chooses to save from all walks of life.
Wonderful verses that show the particular nature of God's love. Do you not see it?
I have addressed this many times over. Paul continues his thoughts from chapter 2 which qualifies the word "all." Here we also see the qualifier being "those who believe" from all walks of life.
Please note that all the verses you quote do not support your assertion.
This has been addressed, ad naseum, with the context around your abbreviated quote, you see that unless one is born again, one cannot believe. Once again the context shows a particular love from God, given to the people he chooses to save.
Notice that even you believe in a particular saving grace, not a universal saving grace.
Where we disagree is you put the means of salvation upon humans and I put the means of salvation upon God.
I trust that you can clearly see by my response that I follow scripture. I have answered every question you have brought up and pointed you toward biblical exegesis of the passages. I have shown you that your accusation of me is false. You have been disingenuous.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Austin I went over your response a few times and the one thing that comes through load and clear is you total disregard for the text. you have to put your special twist on all the scriptures. But should I expect any less from you.
You do not want to see the truth you just want to justify your Calvinism. To say that you are only being disingenuous would be kind.
LOL, yet here you failed to respond to even one point I made. Again, you are disingenuous.
Earlier you claimed I didn't respond to the verses you shared. I did that with each verse. Now you blow off all that I said with an obvious prejudice whereby you refuse to consider anything outside your prejudice.
Silverhair, the people reading this thread can see what you are doing. There is nothing more for me to say to you. I have answered every objection and roadblock you have erected. I have cast down your complaints. I leave you to your bias and prejudice in which you live.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Austin I have answered your posts but all you do is say don't agree as if that is an answer. Yet you do not answer questions that make you uncomfortable. Many have tried to show you the truth but you have closed your eyes to it. You say you have answered every objection and roadblock but that is only if I drink the Calvinist Kool-Aid which I do not. You avoid scripture by twisting it or changing meanings of words. That is not answering that is just obfuscation.
You have show over and over that you have no regard for the Character of God. You will throw anything under the bus as long as you think doing so will support your errant view. As I said before I can only show you the truth, you have to accept it.
LOL, you are extremely disingenuous. There is nothing more for me to say to you.
Go in peace.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Why do you continue to fight against scripture. Your errant theology has blinded your eyes.
Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 7:45 PM Pacific.
This thread will be closed sometime after 7:45 PM Pacific.
I reject your errant theology. I love being found in Christ, having been saved by grace alone and justified by faith alone. Perhaps you have never been captured by God's amazing grace, preferring to think you chose God. If so, you may never have known the great joy of God choosing to mercifully save you apart from anything you did.
You claim to be a Christian. I will not question your claim. I simply can't imagine telling God that it was my choice of him that saved me.
This thread is closed.
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