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Featured Man’s Duty vs. God’s Elective Purpose Explained

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Protestant, Nov 28, 2021.

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  1. Protestant

    Protestant Well-Known Member

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    Question: How do we reconcile God’s command that we must believe on Christ with the fact that salvation is the gift of God?

    Some of Silverhair’s arguments are not without merit:

    “[T]he scriptures [teach] that has God require us to have faith before He saves us….. God has set the conditions….”

    John 3:16 agrees with Silverhair. Believing in Christ saves you from perishing, while gaining eternal life (i.e., salvation).

    John 3:36 echoes this truth.

    “Repent and believe the Gospel” (Mark 1:15).

    Repenting and believing is what man is commanded to do. It is man who repents. It is man who believes.

    It is this revealed will of God that man’s duty is clearly proclaimed. These are the conditions.

    What isn’t proclaimed, however, is God’s secret will ---- i.e., what God has purposed to do.

    Our all-wise God has always known that without His merciful intervention, man is doomed. This truth was born out in the testing of Adam and Eve.

    The Purpose of God According to Election

    Unless one has a clear understanding of Election, it is impossible to unravel the seeming ‘contradiction’ of our duty to believe vs. God’s purpose to give saving grace to some and not all.

    Understanding the arguments of Romans 9 is essential to apprehending the solution to this alleged ‘dilemma.’ It is God who makes the decision as to who, exactly, is to be counted among the Elect. That decision is not based on any merit or demerit man may have. The choice is reached by the counsel of His own will.

    This saving grace was foretold by the Prophet Ezekiel:

    25Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

    26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them (36:25-27).

    These verses teach the essence of saving grace which God has purposed, from eternity, to give the Elect.

    The clean water is a metaphor for the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the water of the Word.

    The new heart is a metaphor for the new birth from above. For it is with the heart man believes unto righteousness.

    Without God’s Spirit, given us in the new birth, causing us to obey His commandments, (including the commands to repent and believe the Gospel), man will not obey.

    This Truth Does Not Impugn the Character of God

    Had God purposed to deny to man that which man rightfully deserved, there would be cause to believe God was unjust.

    But such is not the case.

    All men deserve judgment for original or personal sin. For all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

    No man deserves saving grace, because grace is not of works (personal merit) [Romans 11:6].

    Furthermore, it is not evil or unjust of God to give to some that which is good, though they do not deserve such favor.

    This truth is exemplified in the Parable of the Vineyard Workers (Matthew 20:1-16). Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity?’ (Matt. 20:15 ESV).

    Silverhair: “So you have to be born again before you can believe. you have a strange view of the bible.”

    No, this is the biblical teaching.

    Before a man can see the Kingdom of God, as well as its King, Jesus Christ, he must be born of the Spirit of God (John 3:3).

    First comes spiritual rebirth by the sovereign Spirit, resulting in removing the log of sin which spiritually blinds the sinner to the truths of God.

    Then comes the supernatural spiritual sight to see and believe the beauty and truth of the Gospel, as well as that of the Savior sent to save His people from their sins.

    It is not evil of God to command man to do that which he is incapable and unwilling to do.

    Although man is a fallen creature, he has not lost the conscience which makes him morally culpable, nor is he without a modicum of rationale which he uses to determine choices he makes.

    Man's inability and unwillingness are due to his sin, not God's sin or another's sin.

    The fault is in man, not God.

    On the other hand, when it comes to salvation, the glory is all of God. Man has nothing about which to glory.
     
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  2. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    The command to believe on Christ is for the regenerated elect who Christ hath by His death put away their sins. So that command isnt for everyone.
     
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  3. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Shutting up the kingdom of heaven against men. We four; no more; shut the door. :(
     
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  4. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Access is restricted by how not by who.
     
  5. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    Sinners Christ didnt die for arent commanded to repent, they are married to the law, they must obey it, and they cant, they are under the curse.
     
  6. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Acts of the Apostles 17:30. 'God... now commands all men everywhere to repent.'
    Mark 1:15. 'The kingdom of God is at hand. Repent and believe in the gospel.' Some Hyper-calvinists try to avoid the obvious universality of these commands by resorting to a wretched, mongrel form of Dispensationalism, but there is no indication of any restriction as to whom they are directed.
     
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  7. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    I'm a Calvinist and I do not agree with this at all.
     
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  8. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Bingo! The call is a universal call, but only the elect receive it. Just like the parable of the seed and four soils in Matthew 13. The seed went to those four soils, but only one produced fruit, the good soil.
     
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  9. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    That is not biblical.
     
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  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    ALL of us when lost sinners were died in sins and transgressions, all would stay lost unless and until the Holy Spirit enabled us to receive Jesus as lord!
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The message goes out to all, but only those who have been granted ears to hear shall hear!
     
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  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Sounds like hyper cal?
     
  13. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for exposing the error of Silverhair.
     
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  14. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    So your saying that all those that are condemned to hell have a valid complaint against God as according to you Christ Jesus did not die for their sins. And you say this even though the bible disagrees with you.
    1Jn 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
    1Ti 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
    1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
    1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
    1Ti 2:6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.

    Now I really hope you can read the English here? Try not to twist the words or change the meaning of the words OK.
     
  15. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for showing that you are unable to read scripture. You are just supporting a man made theology not the bible. But then I am not surprised.
     
  16. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Says you who cherry pick your verses. Then reads them backwards trying to reverse what God has declared:Cautious:confused:

    You go to eph1...ignore the verses from 3-12.....then offer vs 13,lol

    You go to Jn6...and pick out vs.40 as if 37-44 did not exist,lol

    You are disingenuous SH.

    I can bury you in the bible as your error goes on like a run-on sentence. I am not here for that however.Some like you do not appear to be here to learn or interact.
    What has happened is you came in to take a few shots at Calvinists, but have quickly discovered that most everyone easily answers your out of context philosophical objections. Then, being out of theological bullets you resort to saying ignorant things like I am unable to read the bible.:Sick:Sick:Sick
     
  17. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    Isn't the above ( Mark 1:15, as an example ) directed at Israel, context-wise?
    The Lord said here:

    " But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
    24 But he answered and said
    , I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." ( Matthew 15:23-24 ).

    " These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
    6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
    7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand
    ." ( Matthew 10:5-7 ).

    In the above I see that the Lord Jesus was specifically sent to preach to Israel.
    So, in the below, is He not commanding Israel to do these things?


    " Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
    15 and saying
    , The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. " ( Mark 1:14-15 ).

    I see Israel being responsible, under the Law of Moses, to obey Him in this respect...
    So no, I don't see the Lord's commands here being universal, but I do agree that the Gospel ( Christ crucified for sinners ) is to be preached universally.
     
    #17 Dave G, Nov 29, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
  18. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I agree, and I see that Paul would not have said this at Mars Hill if the Gospel were not to be preached to all men:

    " For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
    24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
    25 neither is worshipped with men’s hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
    26 and hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
    27 that they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
    28 for in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
    29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.
    30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
    31 because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by [that] man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all [men], in that he hath raised him from the dead."
    ( Acts of the Apostles 17:23-31 ).

    I hold that those who preach should declare Christ crucified to all men indiscriminately,
    and those who repent and believe, from the heart, are those of His elect that have ears to hear.

    However, I also see that the Lord Jesus, being sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, commanded them, under the Law of Moses that they agreed to obey, to repent and believe.
    In other words, they were responsible and they have the actual duty to repent and believe the Gospel.

    Seems like a fine point, but there it is.
     
    #18 Dave G, Nov 29, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
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  19. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the above.
    However, I do not agree with men like Andrew Fuller who basically taught that it is man's duty to "place their faith and trust in Jesus Christ" ( Duty-Faith ).

    When carefully examined, this may seem right on the surface...
    until one remembers there faith actually comes from ( Ephesians 2:8, Galatians 2:16-20, Galatians 3:22, Philippians 3:9, Hebrews 12:2 ) and the fact that not all men have it ( 2 Thessalonians 3:2 ).

    As a fruit of the Spirit ( Galatians 5:22 ) and the evidence of God's work ( Hebrews 11:1 ), to me the sheer fact that not all men have it contradicts the idea of all men having the duty to "place their faith" in Christ.
    In other words, they cannot "place" what they do not have until God gives it to them...

    A person cannot meet a condition with empty hands, with something that is given to them as a gift from God, after-the-fact.


    Man's duty is to repent.
    Romans 1 and many other passages tell us that we as men will not repent...

    In our darkened minds and hearts ( Romans 1:18-32, Ephesians 4:17-19 ), we love sin and refuse to come to the light ( John 3:19-20 ).
     
    #19 Dave G, Nov 29, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
  20. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I'm afraid that this is the very Dispensationalism I was writing about. The woman is one of the lost sheep of the house of Israel and our Lord went all the way to the 'coasts of Tyre and Sidon' to save her. In the Kingdom of God, which the Lord Jesus announced in Mark 1:15, there is neither Jew nor Greek, bond nor free. It is Christ Himself who has broken down the middle wall of partition, and preached peace to those who were afar off (Gentiles) and to them that were nigh (Jews).
     
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