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Revelation, Isaac Newton, and the Churches

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by rockytopva, Nov 29, 2021.

  1. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    The purpose of Revelation was to reveal what was going to come to pass....

    The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John.... - Revelation 1:1

    Which all of this was to heavy for just ordinary churches in Asia that did not amount to much… I believe the first part of Revelation is to speak to the church as she would change with time…

    The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; - Revelation 1:20 - Revelation 2:1

    Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
    Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
    Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
    Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
    Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
    Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
    Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning around the time of DL Moody.

    Candlesticks - Seven church congregations
    Stars - Individuals within the congregations, all held in the right hand of Christ
    Seals - The seven seals sealed each congregation within the lambs book of life

    And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. - Revelation 5:4

    [​IMG]
     
  2. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half. " - Daniel 12:7

    From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

    "So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060." - Isaac Newton

    As Charlemagne was crowned king on December 25, 800 by Pope Leo the III so the day of Christ's coming will be on Christmas Day, 2060. If the rapture of the saints (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) occurs seven years before the time of Christ’s coming the date of the rapture 12.25 2053. However… Isaac Newton notes

    "It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." - Isaac Newton

    Before Christ comes the Anti-Christ must be revealed...

    Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; - 2 Thessalonians 2:3

    Who....

    16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
    17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
    18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. - Revelation 13:16-18

    I traveled to Tahiti and couldn't help but notice all the electronic devices hooked to databases. All you have to do is swipe your passports and all your information comes up. You can even have your iPhone display your ticket information. We are not far away from having everything stored on a universal database in which we will all be required to be tied to! And for most folk this will be just another tattoo!

    Considering this timeline I believe a calling up of the church will occur within about 30 years.
     
  3. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    I must say, here, that I could be wrong regarding anything comparing the end of times, Revelation, and a timeline.

    42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
    43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
    44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. - Matthew 24
     
  4. Keith Mullins

    Keith Mullins Member

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    I been taught this my entire Christian life. Still don't believe it. It was written to seven Churches that existed at the time. Each of these Church types exist today and have existed since The Revelation was written.

    I am more than willing to learn, so if you can provide Biblical evidence of these seven Churches being spoken to the Church as it would change through time, I will listen.
     
  5. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    I can make a presentation and give it a try...

    Ephesus- Messianic church - The First Church - The Apostle Peter - The Ephesan Church started on the day of Pentecost around 33 AD. Ephesus in the Greek is of uncertain determination but may mean “discoverer,” in which this is the first church age to “discover” the meanings of Christianity. It was Peter who first received the Holy Ghost and delivered the first sermon. Thus, according to Christ Jesus, Peter became the first rock in which he would build his church (Matthew 16:18), on which the gospel then spread.

    “Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my names sake hast labored, and hast not fainted. Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.” –Revelation 2:1-5

    "Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love." Sad thing that the first church, the Messianic church, dissipated away! Most churches as we know them are Catholic or Protestant (protestors of the Catholic).
     
    #5 rockytopva, Nov 29, 2021
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  6. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    The Persecuted church - The Second Church - The Apostle Paul

    The Smyrnaean Church age began with the Roman Emperor Nero burning down Rome and accusing the Christians of doing it. Smyrna in the Greek means “Myrrh,” in which the Smyrnaean martyrs represented the most pure form of Christianity of all the church ages. The martyred crowns were many as the Smyrnaean church age progressed.

    Ye Shall Have Tribulation Ten Days…
    Time Persecutor Description
    67 AD Nero The Smyrna Church Age begins with Nero setting fire to Rome, and then blaming the Christians
    81 AD Domitian Declaration that no Christian should be exempt from punishment, Paul’s Timothy died in 97 AD.
    108 AD Trajan and Adrian Severe persecution against Christians from 108 to 138 AD during the time of the Bishop Ignatius
    162 AD Marcos Aurelius Marcos Aurelius, commendable in study of philosophy, sharp and fierce towards Christians.
    192 AD Severus This persecution was carried out by the will and prejudice of the people and extended into Africa.
    235 AD Maximus Numberless Christians were slain without trial and burned indiscriminately in heaps
    249 AD Decius Began because of the amazing increase in Christianity, and with the heathen temples forsaken.
    257 AD Valerian The martyrs that fell during this persecution were innumerable, their tortures and deaths painful.
    274 AD Aurelian A brief persecution that ended with the emperor’s assassination.
    303 AD Diocletian The last persecution ended with Constantine’s triumph against Rome in 313 AD
     
  7. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    The Orthodox Church - The Third Church - Constantine

    The Pergamean Church Age began with Constantine’s triumph against pagan Rome at the Milvian Bridge. The liberation of Rome from the pagan powers reigned in the third church age. Because of the barbarian onslaught during this church age it was necessary for it to move into castles or towers, which is purgos in the Greek. It is recorded that half the human population would die from the barbarian onslaught, the church therefore would need to dwell in fortified structures.

    “And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write: These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges; I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan’s seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth. But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Baalam, who taught Balak to cast a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate. Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and fight against them with the sword of my mouth. He that hath an ear let him hear what the spirit saith unto the churches. To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in that stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that received it.” Revelation 2:12– 17

    It was thought that Balaam, a prophet to his people, took a bribe from Balak to curse the people of Israel. So it was with the Nicolaitanes, who taught the people that fornication was ok, cursing the lives of others. This was true in the early life of St. Augustine, who as a young man went from sexual partner to sexual partner until being converted. As St. Augustine was traveling the Roman Empire he noted in his log that “In every man lieth a serpent,” indicating that the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes spanned the entire empire before the barbarians destroyed it. This Pergamean church then withstood the onslaught of the barbarians during the time of the Goths, Huns, Vandals, on up to the time of the Vikings. This was a very barbaric age in which the church moved out of the fields and into the castles such as we had in Constantinople.

    "Therefore I say, He ordained that we should undergo death for the faith, which each man should do for the communion of the Church. For Christianity makes progress by the deaths of its followers. For if death were feared by the faithful, no man would be found to live with perfect faith. For the Lord Christ says, 'Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.'" (John 12:24) –Petilian’s discussions with St. Augustine. Note: “even in the days of wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr” refers to the previous church age. As the Bishop Pelitian and Augustine were hashing away at what direction the church should go, Pelitian made the comment that we should not fear dying as Christians, knowing that the state of the seed is better in the afterlife than in the former. A star in Pergamos was the good old St. Nicholas, who would ride into town with a switch and presents for the children, depending on how good they were.
     
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  8. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    The Catholic Church - The Fourth Church - Charlemagne

    4. The Thyatirean Candlestick: Catholic Church Age (Charlemagne)

    It would be as an estimate that the Thyatirean Church age began with Charlemagne, who was a champion for the cause of Christianity. Appalled by the illiteracy of his time, Charlemagne imported scholars from Ireland, Britain, and Italy. Out of these schools were to arise the universities of Europe. In 787, Charlemagne issued to all the bishops and abbots of France a historic Capitulare de litteris colendis, or directive on the study of letters. It reproached ecclesiastics for “uncouth language” and exhorted every cathedral and monastery to establish schools where clergy and laity alike might learn to read and write. A further capitulary of 789 urged the directors of these schools to “take care to make no difference between the sons of serfs and of freemen, so that they might come and sit on the same benches to study grammar, music, and arithmetic.” Upon this foundation was the Thyatira church built. It was too bad we would not see any more Charlemagne’s during this church age.

    “And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star.” - Revelation 2:18 - 28

    Charlemagne gave the church so much power with the edicts of his lifetime that the church age became corrupt to the point that it was compared to the evil woman Jezebel. The church began persecutions from denying folks communion to setting up great inquisitions. “Which have not known the depths of Satan” may refer to Dante Alighieri, who terrified Europe with his writings. The church became just as ruthless as the pagans before them in the arts of death and torture. The great tribulation came about in 1347, in which the Black Death killed an estimated 25% of the European population. Thyatira means to “blow smoke” in the Greek, possibly because of the darkness the Thyatireans would bring into the lives of others.

    I think that the spirit of Jezebel has long ago left the Catholic church and is now in Islam. You would not have wanted to have spoken out against the Catholic church in her time frame and geography!
     
    #8 rockytopva, Nov 29, 2021
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  9. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    The Protestant Church - The Fifth Church - Martin Luther

    5. The Sardisean Candlestick: The Reformed Church Age

    The beginnings of the Sardisean Church age can be traced in 1392, when John Wycliff translated the bible into English. Because of the strong influence of the Thyatireans, Wycliff’s books were burned and his remains exhumed. Nonetheless he started a flame that would lead to the reformation of the church. It was in 1517 that Luther would nail his 95 thesis and thus begin the Sardisean Church age. The Sardisean Church age was an age most adventurous! With the discovery of the new world in 1492, the rise of the English and Spanish empires, and the German reformation, would shed in a whole new era in discovery and adventures, with a whole new era of religious thinking.

    “And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.” – Revelation 3: 1-6

    A regrettable fault in the Sardisean church age was in their ability to become just as evil as the Church they rebelled from. An example was the Anglican Church, who would persecute people for not acknowledging their book of prayer. There were also many regrettable wars in which Christians would fight against Christians, it seems that the only place Christian sects could dwell in unity was in the new world. The Lord here in scripture sought to strengthen the true light of reformation, which things were ready to die with the Sardisean Church age. The reason for this spiritual death was Europe’s unwillingness to accept a variety of faiths, to take over a faith, and to persecute those who would resist the faith. It seemed the desire of the Europeans to have a single faith within their country, and often times that faith would become just as evil as the faith they rebelled from. At the end of the Sardisean Church many of the good things died. The Sardisean Church began in adventure and ended in violence. So the need of a new church age was imminent.

    The Lord also seems to challenge John Calvin with these words... "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."

    Note also that Sardis is a gem, or a hard rock, therefore the Sardiseans are very rigid and unchangeable in their beliefs. As a gem is beautiful so one can expect a well dressed and elegant church.
     
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  10. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    The Philadelphian Church - The Sixth Church - John Bunyan-John Wesley

    6. The Philadelphian Candlestick: The Revived Church Age

    During the early years of John Wesley many Protestants were headed to America to escape the many wars and persecutions that were arising in Europe. John Wesley himself headed for America where he was a Priest in Savannah, Georgia until angry colonist drove him out. Upon returning to England in 1738 he went to a Moravian meeting in London where he felt his heart “strangely warmed.” This was the beginning of the Philadelphian Church, in which the Wesley revivals would issue in a new era of church age. Methodist missionaries brought Wesley’s doctrine to America in the 1760’s and Methodism quickly became the largest movement in America. From that time the Methodist church has split into many denominations including the African Methodist, Free Methodists, Wesleyan, and the Congregational Methodist Church. Others do not call themselves Methodist, but are related to varying degrees. The Salvation Army was founded by William Booth, a former Methodist. Charismatic or Pentecostal churches such as the Pentecostal Holiness Church, Church of God, Congregational Holiness, and the Assemblies of God also have roots in or draw from Wesleyan thought. Many denominations such as the Baptist church experienced Methodist “methods,” but indirectly as they participated in revivals, retreats, seminars, etc. Evangelists such as Dwight L Moody would claim to have received sanctification later in his career. There were also music revivals in Philadelphia with the likes of Charles Wesley, Isaac Watts, Ira Sankey, and Fanny Crosby to name a few. Circuit riders, evangelists, revivals, and camp meetings heralded in the Philadelphian Church Age, which resulted in many of dynamic church services.

    “And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.” -Revelation 3: 7-13

    The hour of temptation that would try the world was the great depression followed by World War II. The open door allowed for the gospel in this church age to circle the world fulfilling the prophesy in Matthew 24:14 that the Gospel would be preached “in all the world.” It is with regret and a sigh that the author has seen the Philadelphia Church age come to an end and a new church age begin. With those of the old church age we find sanctification in its truest form. These folks who were truly sanctified had a sweet spirit, a working ethic, a natural charisma, and were folks who possessed the gift of sainthood. With the change in times we see the coldness and lukewarmness which throws us into Laodicea.
     
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  11. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    The Laodicean Church - The Seventh Church in materialistic times

    7. The Laodicean Candlestick: The Material Church Age (DL Moody?)

    The Laodicean Church age was most probably born with the ease that came about after the Civil War Since DL Moody got started about this time, Moody could be considered the first messenger to this church age. DL Moody was also the first to profit off of ministry and book sales and to buy a mansion with the proceeds.

    “And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.” -Revelation 3:13-22

    In the previous church age to become sanctified was to acquire spiritual light. In the current church age there is no such doctrine. The Lord in scripture here counsels us to buy of him gold tried in the fire and as many as he loves he rebukes and chastens, which points to the many fallen church leaders this day who have been knocked down a few notches. We are in this church age to listen to the Lords voice and to repent (how hard is that?) when chastened by him. It is also interesting to note the need of eyesalve, this hints to a lost perspective resulting in spiritual darkness. The Lord wants us to see things in a new and clearer perspective. Scripturally, eyesalve will clear up the imagination so people can see that it’s not all about materialism. Good perspective comes with good devotions, mental input, praise and worship, prayer and fasting, relationships, finding of good company in good churches, and a lifestyle disciplined in the right direction. As Christians develop more and more of a relationship with Jesus Christ the evidence ought to be more spiritual light! Another regrettable bi-product that comes with coldness are the lazy habits developed from having it too easy, which adds to the coldness.

     
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  12. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. - Luke 21:24

    Three Jerusalems….
    1. Pre-Roman 70AD sack
    2. Post-1967 restoration - Are the times of the Gentiles now fulfilled?
    3. Post- Millennial New Jerusalem

    And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. - Revelation 21:1-2
     
  13. liafailrock

    liafailrock Member
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    I was reading some of Newton's notes on these topics and mind you, he's harder to understand than reading a calculus book at times. I love his insightful view of the 70 weeks of Daniel in which he argues they do not have to be consecutive, i.e. the 7 weeks and 62 weeks together.

    But pertaining to the 2060 prophecy, this is where worldly people claim he predicted 2060. However, as your post stated, he just pointed out that it was not to be earlier, but could indeed be later to silence those "rash conjectures of fanciful men" (and where do we hear stuff like that today? all over!) Newton saw the 10 horned beast system as a series of empires that arose throughout history (as opposed to mainline prophecy teaching that says that only applies to end times). However, Newton lived back in the days where it was distinctly possible that these 10 empires did not arise yet. Some end times ministries see it the same way, but some of those horns appeared AFTER Sir Isaac Newton, but presumably he was on the right path. Thus, the interpretation differs. But I like Newton's stance on prophecy was NOT to make men prophets, but after the fact when we see it come to pass shows itself as a witness to God. So he left himself maneuvering room there.

    But no matter what one thinks of Newton, I hvae to admit that anyone who invents calculus to solve his physics and science problems can't be all bad. IMO he was the greatest and knowledgeable (albeit undercover) theologian of his times. More theologians ought to see the bible from a scientific and mathematical view.
     
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