Salvation, Of God or of Man

Talk about loaded answers...

 

Too bad the correct answer wasn't listed.

 

Titus 3:[5] Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

 

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Romans 4:5)

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. (Romans 11:6)

 

Making a decision to believe on Christ is not a work. No decision is a decision. We make decisions everyday--you will even make a decision whether or not to answer this post!!

Don't overload your thinking capabilites!!

 

Exactly, OR.

That's why I find it rather amusing, or maybe sad, that they say they believe in salvation by grace, BUT you must believe.

That's like saying, I believe that we get cavities, but we must accept them in order to have them.

 

I'm never sure what people think the bible means when it says we are dead in our sin before Christ. When's the last time you saw a dead man make a decision to do something.

 

Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit. (Proverbs 26:4-5)

It is a total waste of time to argue with you. Your poll questions are ambiguous. I will not be voting in this poll for that reason. God is sovereign--man is accountable. God's sovereignty is NOT limited by man's decisions. If man's decisions limited God's sovereignty, God would not be sovereign. We do not HELP God in our salvation. (Eph.2:8-9). Salvation is a gift. We do not WORK for a gift, but we can CHOOSE to accept it or reject it--that is NOT a work.

 

If you must accept it in order for it to be a gift, then it wasn't a gift to begin with.

 

Some seem to think of work compared with going to work everyday, not so in scripture, it is anything we do, obey the law for instance was work, not a job, not an actual thing to go out and do, work is anything you do to get something, such as salvation. Jesus did it all, we do nothing, anything we can or could do would be in assistance to Him because He needed our help to save us. Not true, if God is in complete control, then we do nothing to participate in our salvation. By saying we do anything to participate in our salvation denies God is in complete control of the universe. Which means, theres no choice to be made, or God isn't in control at all.
It's more a questioning of who and what God is. And many reflect an unbeleif in His ability to be in control of His created iniverse.

 

Bro. James Reed:

You obviously have never received a gift, have you? In order for something to be a gift, it had to have been given by somebody. A gift is only a gift if it is received from the giver. Read the following definition of "gift". Your statement makes absolutely no sense, whatsoever.


From Webster's 1828 Dictionary:

gift

GIFT, n. from give. A present; any thing given or bestowed; any thing, the property of which is voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation; a donation. It is applicable to any thing movable or immovable.

1. The act of giving or conferring.

2. The right or power of giving or bestowing. The prince has the gift of many lucrative offices.

3. An offering or oblation.

If thou bring thy gift to the altar. Matt.5.

4. A reward.

Let thy gifts be to thyself. Dan.5.

5. A bribe; any thing given to corrupt the judgment.

Neither take a gift; for a gift doth blind the eyes of the wise. Deut.16.

6. Power; faculty; some quality or endowment conferred by the author of our nature; as the gift of wit; the gift of ridicule.

GIFT, v.t. To endow with any power or faculty.


BTW--salvation is a GIFT --God is the GIVER--have you received that GIFT?

 

You got me. I have never received a gift in my entire life.

btw, I take offense at your asking me if I have received that gift. Are you implying that I am not, as so many here like to put it, saved?

If so, I believe that is a violation of one of the posting rules of the BB, if I am not mistaken.

Your own definitions prove my point.

Show me in any one of them where it says the gift is only a gift if you take it.

Here is the definition of work, from Webster's

1 a : to exert oneself physically or mentally especially in sustained effort for a purpose or under compulsion or necessity b : to perform or carry through a task requiring sustained effort or continuous repeated operations <worked all day over a hot stove> c : to perform work or fulfill duties regularly for wages or salary
2 : to function or operate according to plan or design <hinges work better with oil>
3 : to exert an influence or tendency
4 : to produce a desired effect or result : SUCCEED
5 a : to make way slowly and with difficulty : move or progress laboriously <worked up to the presidency> b : to sail to windward
6 : to permit of being worked : react in a specified way to being worked <this wood works easily>
7 a : to be in agitation or restless motion b : FERMENT 1 c : to move slightly in relation to another part d : to get into a specified condition by slow or imperceptible movements <the knot worked loose>
- work on 1 : AFFECT <worked on my sympathies> 2 : to strive to influence or persuade
- work upon : to have effect upon : operate on : INFLUENCE


Notice how it continually says that anything whatsoever done with purpose is work? If I have to raise my pinky finger, it is work. If I have to give thought to something, it is work. If I have to perform the action, mentally in this case, of accepting something, it is work.

No matter how you try, you can not get around this point.

If a gift is given freely, then whether I accept the gift or pick it up or take it with me, it is still a gift and it still belongs to me.

If you place the condition of acceptance on the free gift of grace, then it is not a free gift of grace because it is dependent on your acceptance of it. It has become conditional.

As donna pointed out, a dead person, spiritually speaking in this case, has no ability to accept or reject anything.

When you were given the gift of natural life, was it only on the condition that you accept it? If not, then wouldn't it stand to reason that your spiritual life or birth was based on the same principle?

I just don't see how you can get around this.

 

That was not what I was implying--I was simply trying to make it clear that in order to call a gift a gift, there needs to be a GIVER and a RECEIVER. That last comment was NOT directed at you personally--it was a general statement--I am sorry if you misunderstood.

 

I apologize for taking it the wrong way.

 

btw, there is a Giver. His name is God.