Would you be heaven bound if?

is someone just going to come up to you and give you a gift for no reason? not really - there's a reason for everything isn't there?

 

So grace is a gift...but you have to earn it?

 

If they were believers, yes.

 

oh brother. give me a break.

God killed them for lying - and now their in heaven? balogne.


ok. you people keep taking what i say out of context when it comes to grace.
grace is a gift - that we see from God. we accept that gift in our hearts. but do we have it really?
ok. no. the holy spirit through us (because it is in us because we've asked Christ to live in us) helps us to do three things (i've summarized it):

1)become humble before God (james 4:6) - if we aren't humble - God will not give us grace.
2)have a repentant heart towards God - for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
3)to walk uprightly - psalms 84:11 "For the Lord God is a sun and shield: the Lord will give grace and glory: no good things will he withhold from them that walk uprightly" - so God will withhold grace from us if we dont walk uprightly

the thing is though. we can't do this on our own. the holy spirit helps us. "no man comes to the father except through the son" and "no man can come to the Son except the father draws him"

all throughout the old testament it says things like "so-and-so found grace in the sight of the Lord" - in other words, they did something to find grace in the sight of the Lord. what was that? they walked uprightly.

psalms 15:2 "Lord, who shall abide in they tabernacle? who shall dwell in they holy hill? He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart." so those who dont do those things will not abide with the Lord - therefore not recieving the grace of God.

Proverbs 28:18 - "Whoso walketh uprightly shall be saved: but he that is perverse in his ways shall fall at once." - whoever walks not uprightly is not saved - we are saved by grace - so if we dont walk uprightly - we dont have grace.

Psalms 7:10 - "My defence is of God, which saveth the upright in heart."

Psalms 25:21 - "Let integrity and uprightness preserve me; for I wait on thee."

Psalms 37:18 - "The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever."

Psalms 125:4 - "Do good, O LORD, unto those that be good, and to them that are upright in their hearts."

Psalms 140:13 - Surely the righteous shall give thanks unto thy name: the upright shall dwell in thy presence.


there are so many other verses. i dont want to make this a long post.

we obtain grace not by physical works - but by spiritual "works".
we cannot have grace if we do not have spiritual works pleasing unto God.

 

Gekko, first of all you need to learn some Bible! We don't obtain grace by works, or it's not grace! Do you think you are saved by works? And you are not sanctified by works, either. Read Gal. 3.1-3

The OT is always seen in the light of the NT, so you're OT quotes do not contradict the fact that we are saved by grace through faith (not works).

As for Ananias and Sapphira, the text says they lied to the Holy Spirit, which indicates they were saved. Ananias dropped dead, possibly from conviction, when his lie was exposed. Same thing with Sapphira. Yes, they were probably saved. Letting them die was God's judgment on them for others to see and His protection of the early church.

In 1 Cor. 11, it even tells us that some believers were taken out by God because of their sin with communion:

This was addressed to believers. Also, the fact that Paul many "sleep" shows it is believers, because that euphemism for death is never used for unbelievers (it is not soul sleep but just a word to indicate death).

If you think you need to earn grace for salvation, then you don't understand grace. It can't be earned.

 

what's your definition of works?

rather. what's the greek meaning of the word works in that verse?

 

there's no such thing as soul sleep...

when people die. they die. period.

 

explain this then:

"every idle word will be held accountable unto you at the day of judgement"

sounds to me like what we say matters. hmm?
revelations 21:8 i think says that no liars, no sinner will enter heaven.

explain to me this then:

my dad became a christian a long time ago. showed the fruits etc. you would say he had God's grace and salvation. right?
well. just last summer he has rejected Jesus Christ as the son of God.

does he still have salvation? is he still saved? is he still going to heaven?

i believe he's lost his salvation. dont go telling me he never had it in the first place - unless you have scripture. and not the scripture "it was better for him not to come to the faith in the first place" deal. that won't work.

DOES MY DAD HAVE SALVATION? i dont believe so. i believe he lost it when he rejected Christ.

what do you think? hmmm?

 

ok then. we obtain grace just by asking it. then we are washed clean.

behold this anecdote:

you have a very expensive white collered shirt - stained with red wine. somehow you put it through the wash and end up getting all of the stain out eventually. now you've got a sparkling white clean collered shirt. now you're drinking red wine again - and you end up spilling it towards you. does the red wine stain your shirt? or does it just run off and not touch the shirt?

 

It just shows you ain't got sense enough to drink white wine with your white shirt.

 

it was an anecdote.

you know what an anecdote is?
the shirt in the anecdote represented our lives - the red wine represented our sin - the washing out of the red wine represented Jesus Christ dying on the cross for our sin.

i used to be one of those who say "only God can judge me, you can't tell me nothing man, Jesus loves me!" but then there i went in the same old sin - every idle word we will be held accountable for in the day of judgment.

 

The thing about being held accountable for words has to do with rewards and loss of rewards. Believers are judged for rewards.

I think you father was never saved and has become apostate. But whether he was saved or not, it is only by faith that we are saved. Gekko, do you say otherwise?

 

Gekko, what do you say about the Galatians passage I posted? This is God's word telling us that we are saved by faith and continue in faith. Heb. 11.6 says that it is impossible to please God without faith. You can do all the works you want, but it will mean nothing if they are done in the flesh, even if you are saved (you still have your salvation but your works will be burned up). Sanctification is by the HS.

We are saved by faith for good works (see Eph. 2), but they must be done out of our faith, not our flesh.

 

you never answered me:

did my dad lose his salvation?

 

I think only God knows whether your father was a believer, and that is not the issue here. Even if he "lost" his salvation, it would be because he "lost" his faith. It has nothing to do with works. My own view is that he became apostate, which means he was never saved. I have met and talked with quite a few people like your father - those who seemed to be saved and then became Wiccans, atheists, New Agers, Taoists, or other.

The real issue is, as made abundantly clear in the Bible, that you cannot please God by works done in the flesh, only by faith done in the Spirit. To do things to please God because you think you will impress Him or because it's a duty do not please Him. It must be done out of and through faith and the Spirit. Read Gal. chapters 2 and 3.

 

Collins English Dictionary meaning :Apostasy: Abandonment of one's religious faith or other belief.


Marcia Quotes: I think your father was never saved and has become apostate.

Just wondering umm, How can someone be apostate if they were never saved?

And what does it mean "To work out your salvation with fear and trembling"?

Why would I need to work these out if I am eternally saved.
If then it's a case of eternal security, then I may as well go out and sin my head of.( drunkeness, sexual immoralit etc

As for saying I would never be saved in the first place, then how would anyone truly know I am saved but God.