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Wicked or Ungodly?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Van, Mar 10, 2022.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The Hebrew word (transliterated) "rasa" appears more than 200 times in the OT. Frequently it is translated as "wicked." But is "wicked" too narrow a term, suggesting overtly cruel action? I say yes, and the actual idea is a reference to those not striving to follow the will of God, both men and women. I know that in Greek, the gender does not require that the subject be limited to that gender. Thus a masculine verb could describe the action of both men and women. I expect that same is true of Hebrew, but do not know whether it is or not.

    Other words translated in the OT as ungodly refer to being unjust or worthless.
     
  2. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    According to my Random House College Dictionary the word 'wicked' means :
    evil or morally bad in principle or practice; sinful; iniquitous.
     
  3. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Greek verbs do not have gender except in the participles. So we do not say "masculine verb," though we might say "masculine participle." :)
     
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  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    What I asserted was the Greek gender does not necessarily refers to men only because it is in the masculine. Then I asked if wicked (H7563) in the Hebrew also can refer to men and women. I take it the answer is yes.

    Looking at Deuteronomy 25:2 I find "rasa" in a Hebrew form that is translated as wicked men. But I am asking if grammar allows it to be translated wicked person. Ditto for Psalm 109:6.
     
  5. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    That's all fine, and I'm not objecting. Just trying to help you with the Greek grammar. Again, verbs do not have gender in Greek. Participles (verbal adjectives) do, though. Hebrew verbs also do not have gender.
     
    #5 John of Japan, Mar 11, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2022
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  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Thanks

    Thus the masculine gender in the Hebrew also does not necessarily need to refer to men. People or party or person can be used if context points in that direction.

    So rather than wicked man, the intended message could be ungodly person.
     
    #6 Van, Mar 11, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2022
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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  8. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    This fault finder can find fault where none exists. Cruel and wicked are similar but not the same.
     
  10. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    True.
     
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    But they grow together, rather than apart.

    Has anyone addressed the idea of translating the Hebrew word (H7563) usually as "ungodly" rather than wicked? Of course not as our posters are seldom helpful but often cruel, wicked and ungodly. :)
     
  12. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    Look in the mirror Bud. You project a lot.
     
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Note how once again this attack dog has derailed a thread, addressing the poster and not the position.
     
  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    The Hebrew רשׁע is used about 260 times in the Old Testament. When used as a noun, it has the meaning of "wrongdoing", or "being in the wrong". It can also be used as a adjective, where the meaning can be, "wicked or guilty", or even "godless". It is so used for either a man or a woman, or both together.
     
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  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The Hebrew word (transliterated) "rasa" appears more than 200 times in the OT. Frequently it is translated as "wicked." But is "wicked" too narrow a term, suggesting overtly cruel action? I say yes, and the actual idea is a reference to those not striving to follow the will of God, both men and women. I know that in Greek, the gender does not require that the entity or object being described be limited to that gender. Thus a masculine Greek word could describe of both men and women. I expect that same is true of Hebrew, but do not know whether it is or not.

    Other words translated in the OT as ungodly refer to being unjust or worthless.

    ** OP edited to correct error as brought to light by JOJ.
     
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