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Featured Is God The Father Fons Deitatis?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Jun 20, 2022.

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  1. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    So... Are you implying that you're not human???

    Also, we are to have a view of God that is biblical, not unrestricted. That our view of God is properly limited to what He tells us about Himself in scripture necessarily means that the proper view of God is both narrow and restricted.

    The Archangel
     
    #61 The Archangel, Jun 25, 2022
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Christ's Sonship has nothing whatsoever with His becoming flesh. The Father is eternal. He was never not the Father, meaning the Son was never not the Son.
     
    #62 Aaron, Jun 25, 2022
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  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    God has revealed Himself through His Son.
    John 14:6, 1 Timothy 2:5, And what He told the , Prophet Isaiah, Isaiah 43:10-11.
     
    #63 37818, Jun 25, 2022
  4. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Yahweh is God!
     
    #64 JesusFan, Jun 26, 2022
  5. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Proverbs 30:1-4 [NASB20]

    The words of Agur the son of Jakeh, the pronouncement.
    The man declares to Ithiel, to Ithiel and Ucal:     ​

    I am certainly more stupid than any man,
    And I do not have the understanding of a man;
    Nor have I learned wisdom,
    Nor do I have the knowledge of the Holy One.
    Who has ascended into heaven and descended?
    Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
    Who has wrapped the waters in His garment?
    Who has established all the ends of the earth?
    What is His name or His Son's name?
    Surely you know!​
     
    #65 atpollard, Jun 26, 2022
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  6. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    I agree.

    Heterodox … a good word.
     
    #66 atpollard, Jun 26, 2022
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  7. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    in Prophecy as in Isaiah 9:6

    you would expect MANY verses for this?
     
    #67 SavedByGrace, Jun 26, 2022
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The issue is not over not having a beginning but over the Son being Eternal not being caused by His Father in any way. The Eternal Son being the Eternal Son because He is the Eternal Son being the uncause Cause on behalf of His Father, which is the reason He is the Son. God is not caused. The Persons who are God because they not only have no beginning, they are not caused.
     
    #68 37818, Jun 26, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2022
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The notion of being "eternally begotten" is a denial of being uncaused.
     
    #69 37818, Jun 26, 2022
  10. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Yahweh is also the Word. Yahweh is also the Holy Spirit.
     
    #70 timtofly, Jun 26, 2022
  11. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    I do not understand your point or your question.
    You requested ONE VERSE from the OT that “speaks of the Father and Son relationship” and I obliged by providing such a verse in context. I thought the OT verse very explicit.
     
    #71 atpollard, Jun 26, 2022
  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    This verse has nothing to do with the Father speaking about His Son. Or the Son speaking about His Father, as we have numerous times in the New Testament

    Now show ONE verse that has that
     
    #72 SavedByGrace, Jun 26, 2022
  13. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    LOL

    Show me one verse in the OT that says the sins of those that believe in the Son are forgiven. Can’t find one, then I guess that our sins aren’t forgiven.

    I quoted a prophet who references God having (present tense) a son.
     
    #73 atpollard, Jun 26, 2022
  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    the literal Hebrew is, "and what name his son", no "IS" in the Hebrew text!

    it also says "Surely you know", WHAT is his name, that is known?

    Jesus Christ is called in the Old Testament, "Yahweh", and "The Messenger of Yahweh", and "Elohim", etc.

    John 1:1, where the word "beginning" is eternity past, says that THE WORD was with GOD. No mention of either SON or FATHER!

    Not a single verse in the Old Testament, where God says, "I am sending My Son before you". Instead, we do read, "I am sending My Messenger before you", like in Exodus 23:20

    When Abraham gets three visitors in Genesis 18, it does not say that one of them was "the SON", but it does say "Yahweh"

    etc, etc.
     
    #74 SavedByGrace, Jun 26, 2022
  15. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Whose son?
    Who is “HIS”?
     
    #75 atpollard, Jun 26, 2022
  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    you are still ignoring the FACTS of the Old Testament. WHY don't we ever read, where God says, "I am sending My Son", etc, even ONCE? Or the Messenger of the Lord, Who is Jesus Christ, ever say, "My Father"? THIS relationship is NOT ever mentioned in the OT, but is very clear in the NT?

    In Luke 1:35, when the angel is speaking to Mary about the Birth of Jesus Christ, says:

    "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God"

    Note what it says, "SHALL BE CALLED", which is the Greek, κληθήσεται, in the FUTURE tense! Not IS CALLED.

    Again, speaking of the First Coming of Jesus Christ, we read in Hebrews 1:5

    For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

    clearly, WILL BE, ἔσομαι, FUTURE tense; SHALL BE, ἔσται, FUTURE tense. WHY?
     
    #76 SavedByGrace, Jun 26, 2022
  17. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Yes, all 3 Persons!
     
    #77 JesusFan, Jun 27, 2022
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