Is the gospel necessary for salvation?

Romans 10:13-15 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

 

I am not denying anything but you are denying that God can do as He pleases. The gospel message is one way but to say it is the only way is to limit God. If you think that God is sitting there waiting for someone to say those words then you are just fooling yourself. God looks at the heart to see who has a true trust in Him.

Those that hear the gospel message and reject Christ will be lost but those that trust in God through whatever means God provides for them to know Him will be saved. Or do you not think God would actually do that? Remember He desires all to be saved so I think He has a wide tent but you will disagree I am sure.

It would seem that I have a higher view of the love of God than you do.

 

Glad to see that you agree with that text. It goes right along with Ephesians 1:13 and Romans 10:13. When a person freely trusts in God they will be saved.

 

So no one in the OT times were saved? Well that would be a surprise to them I am sure.

Paul in speaking of another gospel was speaking of a gospel of works, but it seems you did not understand that. When people are saved by God because they have trusted in God then that is not another gospel but that you seem to have missed also. You are just missing the forest for the trees.

Once again the calvinist has refused to allow God to be sovereign. It seems you think that if God does not fit into your calvinist mold then He just got it wrong. What you do not seem to understand is that I agree with John 14:6 but I just do not limit how people can know Him and I do not believe God does either.

It just seems I have a higher view of Gods love for His creation.

 

If one is old enough to hear and understand enough to believe the gospel of Christ - then that faith is a prerequisite in order to be saved.

The exceptions are the reason the new birth is essential, John 3:3.

Mark 10:14, ". . . Allow the litle children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdome of God. . . ."

They being too young to hear and understand enough to believe the gospel of Christ.

 

1 Peter 4:6, ". . . For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. . . ."
1 Peter 3:19-20, ". . . he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, . . ."

 

Voted no on this one for some nuanced reasons:
1. Children and Infants
2. Mentally Retarded people of all ages
3. John the Baptist and Paedobaptists

I would agree that in MOST cases, people must hear and submit to the Gospel to be saved.

Addressing points 1 and 2:
There are two common Evangelical positions on children and mentally retarded people that I know of. One position is that all children and all mentally retarded people are saved. The other position is that elect mentally retarded people and elect children are saved, despite neither having been able to comprehend the gospel. In either case this is an example of saved people not having heard the gospel.

Addressing point 3:
"And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda; And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth. And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb." Matthew 1:39-42

John the Baptist, as a baby in the womb, reacted to Mary who was bearing Jesus. This could potentially mean that John the Baptist was saved as an infant. There are also many solid Evangelical and Reformed Churches that believe in infant Baptism and Covenant Children. I believe the Dutch Reformed Church holds this position as do many Presbyterians. I don't agree on that position, but they're not heretics because of it, they're still my Brothers.

 

How were those to be God's people between Adam and Noah?
We know of Enoch.
How were those to be God's people between Noah and Abram?

 

Acts 4:12

 

Romans 2: 11-16, ". . . For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; ) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. . . ."
Revelation 20:15.

 

I keep forgetting you require God to give you faith after you are saved so why you have trouble with God saving someone through other means, you know trusting in / having faith in God, is actually surprising. He saved you before you heard the gospel didn't He? There is the problem with calvinism, it is so inconsistent.

So you agree the other gospel is salvation by works. Keep the OT laws to be saved.

 

Galatians 2:21, ". . . I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. . . ."
Galatians 5:4, ". . . Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. . . ."

 

How am I misrepresenting your beliefs? Do you not think your were elected before the foundation of the world? Do you not agree with this statement "A man is not saved because he believes in Christ, he believes in Christ because he is saved." by Loraine Boettner? Your own theology has people saved without the gospel so why do you have such a hard time believing that God could do that for non-calvinists?

If you really believed what you are posting here then you would not actually could not be a calvinist. I do not have a problem with those verses because I actually do trust what the bible says. I actually do believe that God is sovereign so I do not try to limit what He can do. That seems to be something that you want to do.

As far as my having a higher view of God's love for His creation, well that seems to be self evident doesn't it. I actually do believe that God desires all to come to salvation and He actually provides various means for that to happen but that is what you keep fighting against.

God's Righteous Judgment
Rom 2:1 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.
Rom 2:2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things.
Rom 2:3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God?
Rom 2:4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?
Rom 2:5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
Rom 2:6 who "WILL RENDER TO EACH ONE ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS":
Rom 2:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
Rom 2:8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek;
Rom 2:10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Rom 2:11 For there is no partiality with God.
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law
Rom 2:13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
Rom 2:14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
Rom 2:15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
Rom 2:16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

Take notice of what these verses say and what is not said. It is the goodness of God that leads you to repentance. You have closed your mind to any possibility that God could do otherwise than what your calvinist philosophy requires. The risen Christ will be the judge and I think it is the height of hubris to think you know better than Him who truly believes.