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The Only Election That Ultimately Matters

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by KenH, Nov 8, 2022.

  1. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    "knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God." - 1 Thessalonians 1:4

    "this is of God, an act of God the Father, made in Christ Jesus before the world began, and which springs from his sovereign will, and is the effect of his pure love and free favour; and therefore these persons who are the objects of it are said to be "beloved of God"...and which agree with 2 Thessalonians 2:13 for this choice does not arise from the merits of men, or any conditions in them, or from the foresight of their faith, holiness, and good works, but from the free grace and good pleasure of God; and is the source and spring of all grace, and the blessings of it, and even of good works; and is a sure, immutable, and irreversible act of God, being founded on his own will, and not on the works of men; the knowledge they had of this was not what the Thessalonians themselves had, though they might have, and doubtless had the knowledge of this grace, and which may be concluded with certainty from the effectual calling; and is a privilege which many particular believers may, and do arrive unto the knowledge of, without any extraordinary revelation made unto them: but here it intends the knowledge which the apostle and his companions had of the election of the members of this church; not by inspiration of the Spirit of God, but by the manner of the Gospel's coming unto them, and the effects it had upon them, as expressed in the following verses; and from their faith, hope, and love, mentioned in the preceding verse; and which was the ground and foundation of their thanksgiving for them"

    - from John Gill's Bible commentary on 1 Thessalonians 1:4
     
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  2. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    While teaching Advanced Bible Doctrine at Pillsbury Baptist College 25 years ago, I quoted Gill. One of my students said it sounded like we would have been "good friends" in school together since our doctrinal views were so similar.

    I simply mentioned that he was in school a few years ahead of me.
     
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  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The presuppostion being the choice in 1 Thessalonians 1:4 is the elections then and not latter.
     
  4. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    "God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation" - 2 Thessalonians 2:13
     
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  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    From is in time is well after before. ". . . through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. . . ."
     
  6. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  7. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    2 Thessalonians 2;13, ". . . because God chose you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. . . ."
     
  8. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    So what point are you attempting to make. I am not following where your posts are supposed to be leading to.
     
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    My mistake. I was thinking of Ephesians 1:4, ". . . he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, . . ." I have confused the references.
    2 Peter 1:10 would have applied, ". . . Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: . . ." So of course my argument made no sense.
     
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Re: Ephesians 1:4, ". . . According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, . . ."
     
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    You can always tell gibberish when you see a statement like this: ""this [Election] is of God, an act of God the Father, made in Christ Jesus before the world began..."

    Did the meaning of made in Christ Jesus jump off the page to anyone? Nope.

    Does this phrase indicate the location (spiritually within Christ) where the election was made? Nope

    What does "He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world" actually mean? Does it mean we were chosen as foreseen individuals with or without foreseen faith before we were created? Nope. It means when God chose Christ to be His Redeemer, He also chose corporately those His Redeemer would redeem as the target group of His redemption plan.

    Why corporately and not as foreseen individuals? Because 1 Peter 2:9-10 says once we were "not a people" referring to people chosen to be God's own possession. If we had been chosen individually as foreseen individuals we would have "always" been a people and therefore to have once been "not a people" the election of Ephesians 1:4 must be corporate. It is a lock.
     
  12. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    New Testament election is the act of God the Father, who chooses as his own all that the Spirit indwells and baptizes into the body of Christ. The Spirit baptizes all those who believes the gospel of Jesus Christ. In this manner the trinitarian signature is on the salvation of a soul. This is explained simply in Romans chapter 8. Each member of the Godhead has a function in our salvation. In this manner the prayer of Jesus Christ to the Father in John 17 on the eve of his crucifixion is answered. This prayer can only be answered in the New Testament Church after Jesus our Lord dies and is raised from the dead for reasons I will not explain in this post.

    Here is the part of the prayer that is the concern of this post.

    John 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
    19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
    20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
    21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
    22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
    23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
    24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. (NOTE: The Father of Jesus Christ loved HIM before the foundation of the world, nothing said about him loving anyone else)


    God the Father chooses all who believe the Gospel and considers them one person. How can he do that? Because of the oneness of the church of Jesus Christ, which is HIS BODY. In essence, the church is Jesus Christ. The church then is one with all the members in it and the Spirit indwelling each believer, his presence in each of them making them individually a son of God, and corporately in the body, making the body one son. In every way one views the church of Jesus Christ it is a trinity and in the image of God. It must be this way. It can be no other way. God has chosen Christ in a one time act before the foundation of the world and he chooses everyone whom the Spirit baptizes into the body. Read 1 Cor 12 now.

    Jesus Christ is the head of the body, the church. The church is formed by Jew and gentile. So, Jesus Christ, Jew and gentile, the Spirit - Trinity.
    The Body itself - Jew, Gentile, the Spirit - Trinity.

    I will excerpt a couple verses from Rom 8 to show there are functions of each member of the Godhead in our redemption and renewing us to the trinitarian image of God.


    The Spirit
    8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
    9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
    10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
    11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

    God the Father
    32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
    33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. (Who is elect? It has been shown already. Those who have the Spirit)

    Our Lord Jesus
    34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

    It would have been impossible, for those believers before Jesus Christ died and rose again, to be one in Christ and in God, and he in them. It would have been a useless prayer if they could have been. Likewise, those after this age when the purpose of God is to fashion a bride for his Son, as he did in the days of the unfallen Adam, there will be no oneness in Christ, that purpose having been fulfilled.

    I urge all Calvinists to abandon this very unscriptural doctrine of election as they present it.
     
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