1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Was Hebrews written to believers or unbelievers?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Guido, Dec 9, 2022.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What, specifically, are you denying, and how?
     
  2. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Perhaps you stopped reading the rest of my post. I will repost it here.

    The author does say one thing that is accurate, however. "...when have two dispensational theologians ever agreed on everything?"
    Dispensationalists butcher Daniel 9, Daniel 10, Daniel 11, and Daniel 12. They ignore the OT teachings that never teach a pre-trib rapture.They shove their cultural ideas into the text of scripture and attempt to take a square peg and fit it into a round hole. Having been raised in Dispensationalism it took decades for me to sift through the Bible and see how awful the exegesis is within dispensationalism. The idea that a Greek word, translated into Latin and thus translated to English as dispensation, which therefore makes the wacky interpretations of dispensationalists somehow accurate is as misleading as any conspiracy theory you can pick.
    George, feel free to follow a wacky concoction of man since it doesn't change God's gracious salvation, but don't think for an instant that the Apostles taught such nonsense.
     
  3. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Messages:
    4,714
    Likes Received:
    1,174
    Faith:
    Baptist
    [Hebrews 3:1, 12-14 NKJV] 1 Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, ... 12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,

    [Hebrews 4:3, 11, 14-16 NKJV] 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest,' " although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. ... 11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. ... 14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast [our] confession. 15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all [points] tempted as [we are, yet] without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

    [Hebrews 6:9-11 NKJV] 9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner. 10 For God [is] not unjust to forget your work and labor of love which you have shown toward His name, [in that] you have ministered to the saints, and do minister. 11 And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope until the end,

    … This really doesn’t seem like words that can be said to an unbeliever and have any rational meaning, so the reader MUST be a Christian.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    35,198
    Likes Received:
    3,791
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Looks like it was written to a group (professing Christians). Most are like this (Paul telling members of the church in Corinth to test themselves to see if they are in the faith, for example).
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It can be said in a sermon meant for Christians, but with the knowledge that unsaved people are listening.
     
  6. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    10,911
    Likes Received:
    1,458
    Faith:
    Baptist
    In dispensationalism I was taught that God saved people differently in different dispensations. That is untrue. God has always saved by grace through faith.
    In dispy, I was taught that God's relationship with Israel is different than with Gentiles. This is untrue. The church is the Israel of God as shown in the Abrahamic Covenant and expressed by the Apostle Paul.
    In dispy world I learned the ages theory of the 7 churches, which is just awful cultural interpretation. In dispy world I was spoon fed the pre-trib rapture, which is never taught in the Bible and verses are misinterpreted to try make it work. The passage that is completely misunderstood is Matthew 24:40-42.
    Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left. Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.
    Here the verse is explained that one will be raptured while the other stays to suffer in the Tribulation. But the passage is just the opposite. The ones who remain are Jesus children. The ones taken are judged and condemned by Jesus. There is no pre-trib rapture.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  7. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    8,916
    Likes Received:
    241
  8. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I meant in regards to your original point that dispensationalism is a 19th century novelty.
     
  9. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I meant in regards to your original point that dispensationalism is a 19th century novelty.
     
  10. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,030
    Likes Received:
    3,657
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well I am fairly well read and am no novice and I haven't heard such a thing. I have no idea who these thousands are but I have my doubts. Further, its a ridiculous notion.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,848
    Likes Received:
    1,365
    Faith:
    Baptist
  12. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You've read Bullinger, Stam, O'Hare, Baker, Moore, Sharpe, Ruckman, et al. and you never heard of the notion?
    You're never heard or met one of their "followers" who do count in the ten of thousands?
    "fairly well read" is not so "fairly well read".
     
  13. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,030
    Likes Received:
    3,657
    Faith:
    Baptist
    admittedly i avoid folks like ruckman however just because i stay away from those extremes doesnt mean I am not well read
     
  14. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    43,046
    Likes Received:
    1,648
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Surely you understand that my comment was about the system developed by John Nelson Darby around 1830 in the first half of the 19th century.
     
  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,848
    Likes Received:
    1,365
    Faith:
    Baptist
    OK. But as you simply worded it, it was a broad brush.
     
  16. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    43,046
    Likes Received:
    1,648
    Faith:
    Baptist
    We'll have to agree to disagree about that.
     
  17. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,848
    Likes Received:
    1,365
    Faith:
    Baptist
  18. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    43,046
    Likes Received:
    1,648
    Faith:
    Baptist
  19. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I think the point was made.
     
  20. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    52,030
    Likes Received:
    3,657
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Ok well good luck with that
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...