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God Does Not Clear the Guilty

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by KenH, Jan 9, 2023.

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  1. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    "That will by no means clear the guilty,"—Exodus 34:7.

    Pause, my soul, over these solemn words! Will not Jehovah clear the guilty? And art thou not guilty? How then wilt thou come before God, either now or hereafter? Hearken, my soul, to what thy God hath also said; "deliver him from going down to the pit; I have found a ransom." Oh! soul-reviving, soul-comforting words! yes, Jesus became my surety, took my guilt, and bought me out of the hands of law and justice. God hath not therefore cleared the guilty, without taking ample satisfaction on the person of the sinner's surety. Hence now the double claim of justice and grace demands the sinner's pardon. Here then, my soul, rest thy present and thine everlasting plea. Keep up a daily and hourly remembrance of it at the mercy seat. While Jesus lives, and lives there as thine advocate, never doubt thy acceptance in the beloved: guilty as thou art in thyself, yet spotless in him. The same God which made thy Jesus to be sin for thee, who knew no sin, makes thee the righteousness of God in him.

    - Robert Hawker, The Poor Man's Morning and Evening Portions, January 9, Morning
     
    #1 KenH, Jan 9, 2023
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  2. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Excellent! Thank you for finding the excerpts.
     
    #2 Martin Marprelate, Jan 9, 2023
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  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    God by no means clears the guilty. This was a key fact upon which Israel often turned in the OT as they looked to God's justice (I think it fair to also consider the martyrs crying "how long" in Revelation).
     
    #3 JonC, Jan 9, 2023
  4. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    You're welcome. I am concentrating on Richard Hawker for my devotional reading this year.
     
    #4 KenH, Jan 9, 2023
  5. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Amen. That is why Christ Jesus died as the substitute for all of God's elect. There was no other way to clear the elect of their sins.
     
    #5 KenH, Jan 9, 2023
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    We partly disagree, but I do agree that God will not clear the guilty. That fact is something tge Workd needs to take to heart.
     
    #6 JonC, Jan 9, 2023
  7. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I know. Your position on the atonement is not supported by the Holy Scriptures. But this is not the place to argue over that.
     
    #7 KenH, Jan 9, 2023
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Lol...unsubstantiated charges never stopped you before. Why would now be any different?

    (Your disagreement with me on the Atonement has absolutely nothing to do with Scripture....hence your inability to provide even ne passage I reject).

    I'm saying we both agree that God will not clear the guilty, or (I assume) punish the innocent. That (at least the first part) is common ground.
     
    #8 JonC, Jan 9, 2023
  9. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    None of us are innocent. We are all guilty of sin.
     
    #9 KenH, Jan 9, 2023
  10. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it does. I am not going to go back into old thread(s) to again argue over something we have previously butted heads over in a thread where it is not appropriate.
     
    #10 KenH, Jan 9, 2023
  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Yes, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

    I am not sure that any Christian questions this.
     
    #11 JonC, Jan 10, 2023
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    The issue is one cannot state that another's view is not supported by Scripture if that other person's view is literally Scripture.

    We disagree some on interpretation and quite a bit philosophically.

    But you introduced my view by your claim (I merely agreed that God does not clear the guilty). So it is up to you to defend your claim by providing the passages I reject.

    I agree this was not the thread to discuss that you mistake my view as lacking biblical support. However you, as the OP (not me), guided the discussion in that direction.
     
    #12 JonC, Jan 10, 2023
  13. sdcoyote

    sdcoyote Member

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    Thank you Jesus, for covering my sin with your blood. You are an AWESOME savior and my love for you grows as your grace flows through me.

    Thank you Jesus. Amen
     
    #13 sdcoyote, Jan 10, 2023
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  14. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Frankly, I wonder if we agree on anything related to Biblical doctrine at all. It is pretty clear that we do not teach the same gospel.
     
    #14 KenH, Jan 10, 2023
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I actually do not know what you teach (not sure we have had enough of a conversation). I can assure you that I teach the gospel of Jesus Christ. That is the only true gospel.

    It is, IMHO, very simple. A short summery of what I believe is that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. The wages of sin is death but the free gift of God is life in Christ Jesus, our Lord. God showed His love for us in that while we were still sinners Christ died for us - He who knew no sin became sin for us, He became a curse for us, the chastening for our well being fell upon Him and by His stripes we are healed. Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

    I understand you believe that has absolutely no biblical support, and that is fair. But I would be interested in learning what you believe to be the gospel some time in the future (if you are so inclined).
     
    #15 JonC, Jan 10, 2023
  16. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    A summary: The gospel is a declaration of the salvation that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit have accomplished for those whom God chose before the foundation of the world to save. In time God regenerates from spiritual deadness those chosen and grants them spiritual life and the gifts of faith and repentance from dead works, and keeps them by His power until they either die and go to be with Christ or are still alive when Christ comes back to establish the new heavens and earth wherein dwells righteousness.
     
    #16 KenH, Jan 10, 2023
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Why do you think we hold different views of the gospel?

    While I prefer to remain closer to God's Word, and your explanation isn't the gospel but your understanding of the gospel, I don't have a problem at all with your position.
     
    #17 JonC, Jan 10, 2023
  18. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Glad to know that you agree with me. Guess you can stop debating me, then. :D
     
    #18 KenH, Jan 10, 2023
  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No fun in that. :Wink
     
    #19 JonC, Jan 11, 2023
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