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Featured Time Travel Theology

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Jan 20, 2023.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Some view that people who gained approval through faith under the Old Covenant, were fully justified by the "promised" blood of Christ. Their faith "looked forward" to Christ. In order for the [snip] doctrine advocates to force their [doctrine] doctrines into scripture they must resort to redefining words (i.e. draw always means compel rather than attract by lovingkindness.) They [misinterpret] scripture, Matthew 23:13 does not really say that men who were entering the kingdom were blocked. No that cannot be true because it demonstrates their mistaken doctrine [snip]. But the most egregious misuse of scripture is to ignore the given sequence, and claim the opposite sequence occurred. They put the cart before the horse again and again. How? By the use of time travel. Folks can be washed by the blood of Christ before Christ died. As ludicrous as this view is, they put it forth again and again, as if repeating an obvious falsehood somehow makes it less of a falsehood.

    Abraham had as James would say, "live faith" rather than dead faith. From his faith flowed works, such as offering up Isaac.

    Now the bone of contention is whether we should use the term "justified" when OT saints gain approval through "live faith." Or, the alternate view, should we reserve the term "justified" to only refer to those washed by the shed (past tense) blood of Christ. This alternate view is the one I advocate. I believe where we see translations use the term justified for OT Saints, that the translation should read "acted righteously" or "self proclaimed righteousness" Thus we do not use the term "justified" to mean two very different things, which creates confusion.

    Let us look at a few:

    Job 40:8
    “Will you really nullify My judgment?
    Will you condemn Me so that you may be justified?"
    Here "you may proclaim yourself righteous" better presents the actions of the person the Lord is questioning.

    Isa 45:25
    “In the LORD all the offspring of Israel
    Will be justified and will boast.”
    Here since the justification is future, justified might seem valid. But some might claim the OT saints were already "in Christ" rather than waiting to be made perfect in Christ. So again, "will be proclaimed righreous and will boast.

    We know that everyone enrolled in heaven has been, past tense, made perfect, Hebrews 12:23. And we know no one entered heaven before Christ came from heaven, John 3:13.

    Thus the time travel theology of claiming the OT saints were regenerated before Christ was put to death is unbiblical.
     
    #1 Van, Jan 20, 2023
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 20, 2023
  2. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Time travel, huh?
    It sure seems like this was discussed ~2000 years ago.

    What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”​

    Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:​

    “Blessed are those
    whose transgressions are forgiven,
    whose sins are covered.
    Blessed is the one
    whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”​

    Romans 4:1-8 NASB
    Not much more to add, Paul says it all.

    Rob
     
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  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Post #2 does not say what point is trying to be made. Clearly Abraham's faith, and not Abraham, was credited as righteousness.
    No time travel required for that. If on the other hand, the assertion intended was Abraham was made righteous by the promised blood of the lamb before Christ died, then the assertion remains a fiction and nothing in post #2 suggests otherwise.
     
  4. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Is it probable that we can time travel? Or even possible?
     
  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Time travel back to a past is impossible. Time travel to any future is to lose the time in between, with no ability to return to any past.

    Time travel theology?
     
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  6. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    God would not allow it to happen

    How can we travel faster than the speed of light
     
  7. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    We don't need to time travel,
    Time is a creation of God.
    God is outside of time.

    Rob
     
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  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    This oft repeated myth is bogus. Yes God created physical time, which operates within God's creation of the universe. But what about "spiritual time" which operates in God's spiritual realm? These advocates for myth do not address why people in God's abode asked how long they must wait. I kid you not.

    The advocates of time travel theology seek to alter the sequence of events as given in scripture, thus time travel theology is simply a nullification tool, used by those advocating scripture does not mean what it says.
     
  9. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Those ignorant of spiritual time need not post. :)
     
  11. unprofitable

    unprofitable Active Member

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    Who was exercising the faith of Abraham other than Abraham?

    Heb 11:4 BY FAITH, Abel offered a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that HE WAS RIGHTEOUS at that time, God testifying of his gifts, and by it being dead yet speaketh.
    He was righteous at that time and not a future date, otherwise he could not have offered a more excellent sacrifice. Who was exercising the faith of Abel? Was he having faith in the blood sacrifice that foresaw the sacrifice of Christ. Absolutely. We are made righteous by the shed blood of Christ, represented in the sacrifice shown to Adam, and likewise offered by Adam, and no other way.

    Abel was made righteous and therefore could offer a spiritually acceptable sacrifice to God. Wisdom, knowledge and understanding of the faith (as a noun) are required for the exercise of faith. Wisdom, knowledge, and understanding are attributes of the righteous. Proverbs 2:6
     
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  12. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    God lives in eternity

    He is not bound by time
     
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  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Those ignorant of spiritual time need not post. :)
     
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I cannot help you understand Hebrews 11:4 if you think Abel had been justified by the promised blood of Christ. Nobody was made perfect until after Christ died. Yes Abel's faith was credited as righteous faith to Abel, thus God attested his faith as righteousness.
     
  15. unprofitable

    unprofitable Active Member

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    Thank you for your reply.

    John 3:3 "Except a man be born again (from above), he cannot SEE the kingdom of God"

    John 6:40 And this is the will of Him that sent me, that everyone which SEETH the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

    Heb 11:3 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but HAVING SEEN them from afar, and were persuaded (FULLY Rom 4:21) of them, and embraced them, and confessed they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

    These verses prove that they were born from above (not of themselves but of God) because they saw the kingdom of God and the shed blood of Christ in their time.
     
    #15 unprofitable, Jan 23, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2023
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  16. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Not sure what you are trying to say

    again, God is not bound by time man is.
     
  17. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    ...he's showing his ignorance...
     
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  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    If you are just going to plow thru the usual false claims, do not waste my time. I have repeatedly rebutted them all. See refers to seeing the inside, and does not mean unable to grasp its existence and seek to enter it.
     
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I am just pointing out those in the spiritual realm were aware of the passage of time, thus spiritual time exists outside of God's physical universe.
     
  20. unprofitable

    unprofitable Active Member

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    Bummer :)
     
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