Featured Biblical Assertion

Apologies Dave. My mind was running on one track and so misread your post. Have to admit trying to deal with several posters at the same time is not the best way to do it. I find many of the posts on here are just a negative response with no reasons provided.



I do agree that those that have heard and believed in Christ Jesus and thus saved by the grace of God are the elect. But the question is not who were predestined but rather to what were they predestined?

I understand that you are of the view that Calvinism and the WCF make a good attempt to explain the bible. On that we do disagree as I see them coming from a biased point of view that they read into the scriptures. I have heard a few Calvinist preachers and what came to mind was a comment that I read about them. They may be Calvinist but they have to preach like an Arminian or no one would be saved by their preaching. What it comes down to is that they can not preach what their soteriology requires.

You say you consider yourself to be a moderate Calvinist. If you don’t mind could you expand on what that means to you. With all the views I have seen presented on BB trying to understand what ones means by Calvinist is like trying to nail jello to a wall.

I was told my grandfather was one of those "Hell, Fire and Brimstone" baptist preachers. He was called home before I had the chance to meet him.

Where you see people predestined to be saved I see the saved as being predestined to conforming to the image of the Son. As for the string puppets being manipulated by God it is the Calvinist theology {TULIP} that leads to that view. The HS will convict but does not coerce a person. God draws us to Himself with kindness and love not irresistible force.

Oh I know how and why I decided to trust in Christ Jesus. It seems some are waiting for that special feeling to wash over them as a splash of cool water but is that faith or just emotion? As the bible says “Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.” and in my case doing the hard work of study to see if what the bible said was true. According to Paul, faith is "being fully assured [convinced] that what God had promised, He was able also to perform" Romans 4:20-21

This is the same for everyone that trusts in Christ for their salvation, they must believe as no one can do it for them.

 

As I said if the root of the tree is bad so is the tree that springs from it. Augustine & Calvin distorted the bible to fit philosophies that Augustine brought into the church. Your understanding of scripture is tainted by the teaching of those that followed after them.

 

A moderate Calvinist is a closet free will Baptist who just can't bring himself to let someone wash his feet in church, so he hangs out with the Young, Restless and Reformed, waiting to see what happens first: if they become woke or Charismatic or both. Sorry, I'm in a cynical mood. I'll PM you later.

 

Let the reader observe that Silverhair was provided Scriptures and he had nothing to say about the Biblical information that was presented. Instead, he keeps bringing up Augustine and Calvin, two men whose works I have not read except for any quotes or excerpts that may have been presented by others.

 

It is obvious that you have not taken the time to look at the foundation of your theology. Bad root bad tree.

I have no problem with any of those scriptures that you posted but I do have a problem with the way you interpret them. When the basis of your interpretation is bad the outcome of that interpretation will also be bad.

 

Looking forward to it.

 

The foundation of our theology is the Bible. You claim the same for yourself.
Our difference is that I interpret the Bible from the whole of scripture, which determines a sentence. You interpret the Bible from a sentence and then force the whole to fit your sentence. This is because you have a presupposition that humans are in equal cooperation with God while I see humans as being under the ordained will of God. This is a fundamental difference in presuppositions. We will never agree as I will always place God as Supreme and you will always place man as equal with God.

 

You think that salvation is a kind of joint venture between God and man. Your idea of God is WAY too small.

 

You continue to make the same unfounded comments. You are using Augustine's Gnostic philosophy as the base for your understanding of scripture. I doubt that you even realize that his novel ideas came from his pagan roots. Those ideas were picked up by Calvin and have been brought into the church by those that followed after him. Do a bit of checking on the history of your theological views.

You just are not willing to accept what the bible says about man having to actually make choices. You need that deterministic God to control your life, that is really sad. For the record man is not equal to God, God is sovereign and only He can save. But what you deny is that God only saves those that trust in His son. Once again this just shows that you do not trust scripture. You just trust your version of scripture.

So you are right we will not agree, you want a non-biblical deterministic God and I worship the God of the bible.

 

Yeah, you think that you control your life, but you don't - A man's heart deviseth his way: But the LORD directeth his steps. Proverbs 16:9

Besides, why would you want to control your life? I want God to control my life. Knowing that He is controlling my life is a tremendous source of comfort and peace to me.

 

Not a joint venture well unless you consider my trust in His son for my salvation is a joint venture. Is this the joint venture you mean
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Rom 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Rom 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

Joint venture, I place my trust in Him and He saves. Just like the bible says. So it seems that you and Austin are on the wrong side of this argument.

 

So your a mindless puppet. Funny how God actually expects us to make real choices and will hold us responsible for the choices we make.

You do realize, I hope, that there is a vast difference between someone being in control and being controlling.

 

Not at all. I believe what God said in Proverbs 16:9.

 

Yeah, you think you can trust based on your will being naturally strong enough to overcome the depraved nature you were born with. I trust based on God regenerating me and giving me a new heart and the gifts of faith and repentance. I give God ALL the glory for saving me. You want to reserve at least a part of the glory for your own free will and mental and emotional strength.

 

Which means that you are not trusting what the bible says but what you want the bible to say.

 

I give direction to my son but I do not control all that he does so it seems you have misunderstood that scripture as you are reading into it what you want to find.

 

Go ahead, Silverhair, and live your life depending on yourself to have enough gumption to get you to Heaven. I trust God. Period. You will not cause me to doubt the power of God.

 

So you admit that you do not believe that Proverbs 16:9 is true when it says that God directs man's steps.

 

I notice you will not address God's word.
Until you do, we have nothing to say to each other.

 

I would not try to get you to distrust the power of God. But I would hope to get you too the point that you actually let God be God and not the caricature of God that you put forward.