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Was Jesus considering this 'book' inspired, or what?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Alan Gross, Jan 16, 2023.

  1. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    LUKE 4:20; "And He closed the book,
    and He gave it again to the minister, and sat down.

    And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on Him."

    Was Jesus considering this 'book' inspired, or what?

    KJVO #4 "I BELIEVE THE KING JAMES IS INSPIRED"

    This group, by far the majority of the KJVonly, believe that the KJV itself, as an English translation, is inspired and therefore inerrant. A person who would dare to defend or even use another translation of the Bible are rejecting the "true" and "real" Bible, the only Word of God.

    To this group, any "change" (added words, omitted words or verses, different choices of English words, modern words) is deviation from the truth and therefore "corrupt". The standard is always the KJV. They believe that God providentially gave the translators wisdom and guided them so that they translated all of the words correctly. As a result, they believe the King James Version is the perfectly preserved Word of God in the English language.

    "The King James Bible Alone = The Word of God Alone."
     
  2. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Well-Known Member
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    I know a lot of people who are KJVO, but none of them think the KJV was inspired. They all just consider it the very best, and most accurate, translation to use.

    Btw, the KJV still ranks among the top five in sales last year. Some people apparently still like it. And before I get accused of being KJVO, I use the ESV.

    Major Shift in the Top 10 Best-Selling Bible Translations the Past Year
     
    #2 Baptist4life, Jan 26, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2023
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  3. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    There was a big controversy some years ago when Jack Schaap, pastor of FBC of Hammond, IN, and head of Hyles-Anderson College opposed the use of the term "inspiration" for the KJV. He thus strayed from the position of his father-in-law Jack Hyles, founder of the college, who had changed his position late in life to believe in an inspired KJV. (See his book, The Need for an Every-Word Bible.)

    Here is a brief, though somewhat inaccurate and out of date, essay on that: A History of The Inspired King James Bible Movement.

    Russel Anderson, who helped fund and found the college. He then wrote an open letter about the matter, found here, in which he asserted KJV inspiration: https://www.soulwinning.info/bible/RAletter2009.pdf.

    Meanwhile, Schaap got in huge trouble, went to prison, and is no longer heard from. The man who followed him in leadership in 2013 is a good man, John Wilkerson, and he doesn't follow Hyles in believing in an inspired KJV. So Russell Anderson wrote a scathing letter to him asking for his name to be taken off the college name: HACalumni.com

    And so it goes.
     
    #3 John of Japan, Jan 27, 2023
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2023
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  4. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    "WHAT IS GOD-BREATHED SCRIPTURE?
    EDWARD J. YOUNG

    from: https://biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/grace-journal/07-3_13.pdf

    "In our last lecture we sought to show,
    upon the basis of an exposition of 2 Timothy 3: 16,
    that all Scripture is both God-breathed and profitable.

    The teaching of the verse is so clear that
    there would seem to be little reason for question.

    What Timothy teaches is beyond dispute.

    Why, then, are not all Christian people willing to agree
    upon the clear and simple teaching of the epistle?

    Why do even evangelicals sometimes refuse to come to grips
    with what the Bible so plainly asserts respecting itself?

    Why do some insist that there are errors in the Bible,
    still maintaining that the phenomena of the Scriptures alone
    must guide us in accepting a proper view?

    The Original Copies of Scripture.

    Perhaps one answer to the above questions
    may be found in the fact that in the copies of the Scriptures
    now in our possession there are minor errors, and hence,
    it is assumed, these errors were probably also in the original copies.

    There are men who refuse to accept the position
    that in the original copies (the so-called autographa) of the Bible
    we have works that are entirely free from error.

    All too often, it is asserted that an appeal to the originals
    is really a flight from reality.

    We do not have these originals, so the argument runs;
    how then do we know that they are errorless?

    How can we say of them that they are infallible and inerrant?

    An appeal to the originals is too often discarded
    as being unworthy of consideration.

    Nevertheless, we must consider the originals.

    Of course, it is true that we today do not possess these autographa;
    it is perfectly true that we have not seen them
    nor has any living man seen them.

    Does it, therefore, follow that an appeal to them
    is merely a way out of the difficulty?

    The present copies of the Bible do contain errors,
    we must acknowledge, and so we appeal to the originals
    which we have never seen.

    Is not this merely an escape from difficulty?

    It might seem that such were indeed the case;
    that is, at first sight it might appear to be so,
    until we begin to investigate the question more closely.

    And as an introduction to the question
    we may well consider again the language of Paul to Timothy.

    When Paul makes his double statement about all Scripture,
    what Scripture precisely does he have in mind?

    When he declares that all Scripture is God-breathed
    and that it is profitable, of what Scripture is he speaking?

    Is he referring to the copies of the Bible that were extant in his day
    or is he referring to the autographa?

    In the little work to which we have already made reference,
    Professor Beegle asserts that the extant manuscripts of Scripture
    were regarded as being the same as the originals
    because the attribute of theopneustos applied pennanently to them.

    Paul, he tells us, "--probably never thought
    in terms of the technical distinction between /13 14 GRACE JOURNAL/
    the autographs and copies of Scripture" (op. cit., p. 29).

    Nor does Paul, we are told, make any special claims
    for or characterize the originals in such a way
    as would set them apart Ifrom the copies of the Bible
    that were extant in his own day.

    No explicit statements in the New 'I Testament, we are told,
    single out the autographs as being different
    from the copies of the Bible which the church of Paul's day knew.

    Nor does the New Testament anywhere teach
    that copies of the Scriptures are not inspired.

    In one passage, Professor Beegle explicitly states
    that Paul was thinking in terms of the extant manuscripts,
    namely, 2 Timothy 3: 16.

    1 We are grateful to Professor Beegle
    for thus setting the issue clearly before us.

    His words require considerable comment
    and cannot be dismissed offhand.

    Basically, then, the question that is often raised
    may be stated as follows:

    "When Paul wrote 2 Timothy 3: 16,
    was he thinking of the copies of the Bible then extant,
    and so what he wrote concerning the Scripture
    applies to those copies. "

    more references: BiblicalStudies.org.uk: Inspiration of the Bible
     
  5. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    from: https://biblicalstudies.org.uk/pdf/tp/ot_wenham.pdf

    "When we turn to the teaching of our Lord as recorded in the Gospels,
    we have a wealth of relevant material coming from all four Gospels
    and from all the four major strata — Mark, Q, special Matthew,
    special Luke — of the synoptic Gospels.

    We are not confined simply to two or three key statements,
    but we have a host of quotations and allusions
    thrown up spontaneously from a great variety of situations,
    and these are often the more telling
    for revealing His basic assumptions
    rather than His specific teachings.

    We can hear Christ preaching to the multitude and instructing disciples,
    refuting opponents and answering enquirers;

    we can hear Him in His private conflict with the tempter
    at the beginning of the ministry and in His final instructions
    prior to the ascension.

    As we proceed it will, I believe, become clear that,
    throughout the whole range of the material,
    His attitude is consistent and unchanging.

    We shall examine in turn His attitude to the truth of the history,
    to the authority of the teaching and to the inspiration of the writing.

    As the evidence is assembled, it will, I believe,
    lead us to a firm and objective historical conclusion.

    We shall see that to Christ the Old Testament was true,
    authoritative, inspired.

    To Him the God of the Old Testament was the living God
    and the teaching of the Old Testament
    was the teaching of the living God.


    To Him, what Scripture said, God said. [p.9]

    II. THE TRUTH OF OLD TESTAMENT HISTORY

    Let us examine then, first of all,
    His attitude to the historical narratives of the Old Testament.

    He consistently treats them as straightforward records of facts.

    We have references to:

    Abel 2 Here I echo a phrase of B. B. Warfield (Revelation and Inspiration, O.U.P. New York. 1927. p. 92). (Lk. xi. 51),

    Noah (Mt. xxiv. 37-39; Lk. xvii. 26, 27),

    Abraham (Jn. viii. 56), the institution of circumcision (Jn. vii. 22; cf. Gn. xvii. 10-12; Lv. xii. 3),

    Sodom and Gomorrah (Mt. x. 15, xi. 23, 24; Lk. x. 12),

    Lot (Lk. xvii. 28-32),

    Isaac and Jacob (Mt. viii. 11; Lk. xiii. 28),

    the manna (Jn. vi. 31, 49, 58),

    the wilderness serpent (Jn. iii. 14),

    David eating the shewbread (Mt. xii. 3, 4; Mk. ii. 25, 26; Lk. vi. 3, 4)

    and as a Psalm-writer (Mt. xxii. 43; Mk. xii. 36; Lk. xx. 42),

    Solomon (Mt. vi. 29, xii. 42; Lk. xi. 31, xii. 27),

    Elijah (Lk. iv. 25, 26),

    Elisha (Lk. iv. 27),

    Jonah (Mt. xii. 39-41; Lk. xi. 29, 30, 32),

    Zachariah (Lk. xi. 51).

    This last passage brings out His sense of the unity of history
    and His grasp of its wide sweep.

    His eye surveys the whole course of history
    from ‘the foundation of the world’ to ‘this generation’.

    There are repeated references to Moses as the giver of the law
    (Mt. viii. 4, xix. 8; Mk. i. 44, vii. 10, x. 5, xii. 26; Lk. v. 14, xx. 37; Jn. v. 46, vii. 19);

    the sufferings of the prophets are also mentioned frequently (Mt. v. 12, xiii. 57, xxi. 34-36, xxiii. 29-37; Mk. vi. 4 (cf. Lk. iv. 24; Jn. iv. 44), xii. 2-5; Lk. vi. 23, xi. 47-51, xiii. 34. xx. 10-12);

    and there is a reference to the popularity of the false prophets (Lk. vi. 26).

    He sets the stamp of His approval on passages in Gn. i and ii (Mt. xix. 4, 5; Mk. x. 6-8.)

    Although these quotations are taken by our Lord
    more or less at random from different parts of the Old Testament
    and some periods of the history are covered more fully than others,
    it is evident that He was familiar with most of our Old Testament
    and that He treated it all equally as history.

    Curiously enough, the narratives
    that proved least acceptable to what was known a generation
    or two ago as ‘the modern mind’ are the very ones
    that He seemed most fond of choosing for His illustrations."
     
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Q and "special" Matthew are hypothetical. We have Matthew, then Mark and Luke followed by John. Those acounts were Holy Scripture when written.
     
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