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Featured Can You Come to Christ on Your Own

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by DaveXR650, Feb 3, 2023.

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  1. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Rice was no Calvinist!
     
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  2. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Semi-pelagian is a more descriptive term for anyone who picks and chooses the 5 main points of Calvinist soteriology, but perhaps semi-Armenian or semi-Calvinist would work. In any case that person has determined to live with open contradictions that cannot be resolved. They will hold to a position that is unreasonable and irrational while ignoring anyone who calls them out on the contradictions they hold.
     
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  3. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    davexr

    Most disagree with me

    Okay, a person cannot come to Christ unless they have been born anew from above.
     
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  4. Brightfame52

    Brightfame52 Well-Known Member

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    What ? Someone agrees with me ?
     
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  5. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Lol, so what kind of Calvinist would you call this? Milquetoast Calvinist? Calminian? Squirrelly Calvinist?
     
    #45 kyredneck, Feb 6, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2023
  6. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    #46 kyredneck, Feb 6, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2023
  7. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    Uh. That was the point. Everybody calls themselves a moderate Calvinist.
     
  8. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    Well. I know now how William F. Buckley felt after debating Gore Vidal. It would be nice if you actually had a thought to consider.
     
  9. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    First, doctrine ripped from scripture must be applied to a Calvinist belief system… so is that the abiding belief principle in this individual?
     
  10. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    It would be nice if you took a scriptural stance and stuck with it.

    You're all over the place.
     
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  11. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    It's called DaveX attempting to be provocative without ever being declarative. He floats on the words of others and offers questions in an attempt to always stay floating off the ground so that no substance ever grounds him to the earth. At least that's my perception of how DaveX operates. He's sort of like a Neville Chamberlain.
     
  12. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    We used to call guys like Dave a 'mugwump', right here on the BB. (nothing new under the sun)
     
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  13. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    What's the issue with John 6? There is no issue.
     
  14. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    I’m not, not a Presbyterian…. We baptists do follow Christs example of believers baptism and foot washing however.
     
  15. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Would you have called Andrew Feller a mugwump?
     
  16. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    Well, what do you do with some of those verses in John 6, like verse 37, 44, and 65? They seem to indicate more than God laying out a plan and then waiting to see what men do on their own to respond to the gospel.

    What is your understanding as far as an "internal" work of grace in the quote in the OP?
     
  17. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    It's true I don't think it's any use to call people names and question their salvation and things like that, which I see a lot on this board. That leaves you with actually discussing the pros and cons of what people say rather than just attack. If you're interested let me say this. I find that the great Calvinist preachers seem to say a lot of things that flat out contradict what some of you Calvinists on this board are saying. They preached messages filled with offers of salvation IF you would believe, they preached these as universal, they exhorted people to improve upon any conviction or grace they experienced, they flat out said that Christ's work and sacrifice was available to you upon your receiving of it. They said that Jesus was knocking at the door of your heart, that he was patiently inviting you to come. They encouraged everyone to make every effort to come to Christ.

    Now I am having a hard time reconciling this with what some of you guys are saying. And frankly, when comparing you and a couple of guys that look like they came off the set of "Deliverance" with Owen, Edwards, Watson, Bunyan and all the other great Calvinists who lived it - well I'm going to have to go with them. Unless that is, you can come up with some kind of a real argument or show me where I'm wrong.
     
  18. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    Looks to me like you're out of ammo.
     
  19. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Dave, in matters of God's Supremacy there is no "pro" to man-centered salvation. There is only "con." But, you attempt to make bad doctrine equitable to good doctrine. That's not debate. That's being unwilling, or unable to state your position and hold your ground.
    Therefore, state your view and hold firm to it. Otherwise you are merely playing the role of octopus as you squeeze around everything. Do you have a theological spine?
     
    #59 AustinC, Feb 6, 2023
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2023
  20. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    See that’s the point… you are putting your faith on men and not on the Creator… so who are you following Dave, where are you placing your trust?
     
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