Featured Can You Come to Christ on Your Own Part II

It does say that with authority. No doubt about it. But Jesus also said the following with equal force;

Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

You cannot deny that Jesus said those words. You must see the son, and believe on him in order to have everlasting life.

HAVE YOU SEEN THE SON?

No, Jesus was addressing some men who had seen him and they were half way to having everlasting life. Here is what Jesus was saying to them;

Joh 6:36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

They are the same distance from Jesus that you are. You have not seen Jesus, but you believe on him. Half way is only half way no matter which half you are on.

I say that according to your own logic and reasoning that you are in great trouble because if one verse is addressing you, then all verses are addressing you.

 

Does God know who will freely trust in His son and be saved? He's omniscient so yes He does. Those that meet the conditions set by God will be saved those that do not will be lost.
Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
Joh 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

You write as if your pronouncements are a Fait accompli. The fact that the bible does not support your theory does not seem to have impact on you.

 

Does God seek God for them,
does He feel their way toward Him for them,
does He find God for them,
does He repent for them

The answer is NO. God does not do those thing for man they must do them themselves. You highlight these words and then ignore them.

What does Act 17:34 say?
Act 17:34 But some men joined him and believed, among whom also were Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris and others with them.

Your just showing that you have limited comprehension skills if you do not see that in the text. But amazingly you see some appointed to salvation and that is not in the text as I have shown you.

1] Act 17:26 having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation,
2] Act 17:31 He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed

Austin you are avoiding the obvious and reading into the text what you need to find. That people made a free will choice to trust in Christ Jesus is a logical deduction and is also in the text, {some men joined him and believed} just as your idea that God appointed some to come to faith is an illogical deduction. My view is supported by scripture. Yours only by your desire to find it in the text.

 

Here is an important truth about Hebrews that everyone seems to be missing. The epistle is addressed "to the Hebrews." God has never made any covenants with gentiles, not according to me, but according to the man who probably wrote the epistle to the Hebrews, Paul.He would not have forgotten what he said.

Check this out for yourself;

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both (Jew & Gentile) one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Please look at the plight of gentiles in Verse 12. In the New Covenant, God made gentiles "partakers" in the "spiritual" blessings of Israel after it was determined the Jewish nation would not believe in the resurrected Jesus Christ. (see Acts 10-11)

Get this. It was written in AD 58.

Ro 15:22 For which cause also I have been much hindered from coming to you. (at Rome)
23 But now having no more place in these parts, and having a great desire these many years to come unto you;
24 Whensoever I take my journey into Spain, I will come to you: for I trust to see you in my journey, and to be brought on my way thitherward by you, if first I be somewhat filled with your company.
25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.
26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.
27 It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.
28 When therefore I have performed this, and have sealed to them this fruit, I will come by you into Spain.
29 And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fulness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ.

I am not guessing about the gentiles being made partakers of the spiritual blessings of the New Covenant that was made with the Hebrews because I am quoting the apostle to the gentiles actually saying it.

Paul was not even saved until 37/38 AD. The gentiles were made partakers in 40 AD.

One must honor the addresses on the mail or get into big trouble.

 

Wait, so the New Covenant that Jesus established is only for ethnic Israel? The people from every nation, tribe, and tongue described in Revelation 7:9-10 are not a part of the New Covenant? Everytime we receive communion, we cannot say that his blood is the new covenant established for us?

JD, do you realize how drastically wrong you are?

 

At this point, you are just openly ignoring God's word as you push you philosophy.
I have shown you the text and you still reject it. There is no reason for me to discuss this with you since you reject what is observed in the text and replace it with your philosophy.

 

Well if Jesus said it, that settles it, that answers the question of the op, the answer is NO !

 

Your disagreement with what I have said is from the standpoint of your adopted doctrinal system, a system that is not true. You are comparing what I have said with your theological position and not by the word of God, taken in context. I gave you plain statements concerning gentiles and the covenants of God in Eph 2. That passage said that gentiles were aliens from the covenants of promise and without God, Christ, or hope, in time past. This time past is from Acts 10 backwards to Gen 12, where God made the first and foundational covenant with Abraham, in which he promised him that through his physical seed he would provide salvation to the nations. Jesus later said to the Samaritan woman in Samaria, "salvation is of the Jews." God has not changed his plan.

You simply must take the words of the scriptures serious. You cannot pick and choose what you will believe and you must not ignore context. You cannot take one verse in a passage literally and the next verse spiritually in order to make the scriptures fit your presuppositions. You must allow the scriptures to correct any theology that you have wrong and you must never correct the scriptures with your own understanding.

Now, let's look at your questions;

Q-1 Wait, so the New Covenant that Jesus established is only for ethnic Israel?
Q-2 The people from every nation, tribe, and tongue described in Revelation 7:9-10 are not a part of the New Covenant?
Q-3 Everytime we receive communion, we cannot say that his blood is the new covenant established for us?

Answer to Q-1
Here is a passage that a man of your intellectual abilities should be able to logically reason out. I was able to with God's help.

Rom 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, 2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. 3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

It would be a crime against heaven and against men for a commentator to attempt to exegete this passage without acknowledging that the context is the advantages given to this people group called Israel. But that is what you do. But it is not a crime against anyone for me to point out that God in his mercy and grace for gentiles has made us gentiles who will believe God to be "partakers" of these promises that were first given by promise to Israel, God's elect people.

Ga 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Gentiles became partakers of the Spirit in Acts 10, in 40 AD, when God sent Peter to them to open the door of faith to us.

Ac 14:27 And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.

So I have given you a passage that tells us God made his covenants with Israel and a passage that says he has made no covenants with gentiles, but he has made gentiles partakers of the Jewish covenants of promise, and I am wondering if you will believe what God has said.

Q-2
All people who believe God are partakers of the spiritual blessings of the New Covenant. The spiritual blessings are the forgiveness of sins and the gift of the Spirit of Christ to indwell and quicken the body. The physical blessings of the New Covenant, such as healings and glorification of the body and sinlessness is not yet realized.

Q-3
We can indeed say that, for the reasons I have given above.

Consider these things and teach yourself to believe the words of the scriptures and to honor context. There is safety in that.

 

You have not proceeded an inch. You are still only half way there. It is sad to watch you struggle.

 

I note you neglect scripture that tells us we are Israel.
*Romans 2:28-29*
For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.

*Romans 9:4-8*
They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen. But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.

JD, are you a child of the Promise?

So...we are a part of the Covenants. Here you admit that your original assertion was wrong. Thank you.

Based on your answer to Q2, I see you admit your initial assertion was wrong. We, the children of the promise, are partakers of the New Covenant and therefore what the sermon to the Hebrews says is for all whose names are written in the Will.

*Hebrews 9:15-17,24-28*
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive.

For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

 

Im not struggling, its in your imagination. I simply answered the op question, you seem to be stressing friend.

 

Oh, the convolutions and errors of Dispensationalism!

 

@AustinC your hypocrisy is amazing. I have pointed out text that supports man freely trusting Christ Jesus but you dismiss that information as it does not fit your philosophy. You cling to your errant theology.

You claim what I have said is wrong then show me how it is. Your blow and bluster is useless since you can not back it up. The context of the verses you posted does not support your view. You claim to trust scripture but you continue to deny scripture. It is not scripture that you trust but rather the Calvinist Philosophy which you cling to.

 

It is easy to say that, and probably fun to say it, but I have given information and clear and unambiguous scriptures in context of the things I said and you have a one line non scriptural rebuttal. If you think I am wrong then deal with my argument and show where I am wrong. As far as Jesus dying in vain, I have the scriptures themselves saying it.

GA 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it (his believing) was accounted (imputed) to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen (nations = gentiles) through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham (he is speaking of the Abrahamic covenant of Gen 12) might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man’s covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. 16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17 And this I say, that the (Mosaic) covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after (after the Abrahamic Covenant), cannot disannul (the Abrahamic Covenant), that it (the Mosaic Covenant) should make the promise (to save the nations/gentiles) of none effect. 18 For if the (eternal) inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Faith that brings salvation (the promise = the indwelling Spirit) had not come until Jesus came. Not my words but what I am reading in this text. Follow the logic and believe the words.

19 Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It (the Mosaic Covenant) was added (as an addendum to the Abrahamic Covenant) because of transgressions, (for how long) till the seed (Jesus Christ) should come to whom the promise was made; and it (the Mosaic Covenant) was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have
given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which (faith) should afterwards (after the law as a governing principle of God) be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. (consider the words of V 24 very carefully) 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For (now, after the law, and faith has come)) ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed (not Jacob's seed), and heirs according to the promise.

Some of you men demonstrate daily that you do not read the scriptures with discernment. Faith that brings eternal life was not here until Jesus Christ came, and the reason for that is because Jesus Christ is eternal life. One must receive him to have eternal life. That is the promise of God and it cannot be accomplished, even by God, without his sacrifice on the cross for the sins of the world. Yes God can justify men by imputing their faith in him for righteousness when they believe him but he cannot give them the promise. The promise of the Spirit comes through Jesus Christ and all who believe in him receives the promise, the Spirit of God = eternal life = the righteousness of Christ = salvation from sin..

All is different after the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Please consider this argument carefully.

 

Sliverhair, the scriptures are clear. You refuse to see God's Sovereign appointment in the passages you provided, despite me highlighting them for you. There is nothing more for us to say to one another.

 

No it isn't, you're just parroting the distortions of Dispensationalism. God doesn't change, and Jesus Christ is the same today, yesterday, and forever, and the 'new' covenant is 'new' only in the sense that the first hath been made old.

 

Your just pulling words out of context and slapping them together in the attempt to support your view.

Act 17:22 So Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, "Men of Athens, I observe that you are very religious in all respects.
Act 17:23 "For while I was passing through and examining the objects of your worship, I also found an altar with this inscription, 'TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.' Therefore what you worship in ignorance, this I proclaim to you.
Act 17:24 "The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands;
Act 17:25 nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things;
Act 17:26 and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation,
Act 17:27 that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;
Act 17:28 for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, 'For we also are His children.'
Act 17:29 "Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man.
Act 17:30 "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,
Act 17:31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead."
Act 17:32 Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some began to sneer, but others said, "We shall hear you again concerning this."
Act 17:33 So Paul went out of their midst.
Act 17:34 But some men joined him and believed, among whom also were Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris and others with them.

What did God appoint? 1] where man would live & 2] who would be the judge of the world.

Note that the response to Paul's message in Athens was mixed. Some people rejected his message outright while others were curious and wanted to hear more and some believed onto salvation. These verses are not about appointments but rather about man hearing the gospel message and freely trusting in Christ Jesus.

 

I am really disappointed in your response to my post. I mentioned nothing about dispensationalism. I merely quoted very simple and easy to read scriptures from Ga 3. I did not twist them in any way to try to make them say something they do not say. The words in this text should mean the same things to any man on this board who reads them regardless of the church he goes to, or if he goes to no church at all. They are words. They are to be believed. The words that I quoted makes us understand that the blessing promised to Abraham, that all the world would be blessed through his seed, who we know as Jesus Christ, and the promise of his Spirit and eternal life would come through him. Speaking of him, he said "After faith hath come." There is a transition here that you must surely grasp. The gospel of Christ is brought to pass through the gospel of God. The gospel that was preached to Abraham was the gospel of God. Here is the gospel of God in a nutshell declaration;

Ro 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, (The gospel of God) and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, 26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: 27 To God only wise, [be] glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

Ro 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated (from the other apostles) unto the gospel of God,

Ga 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospelof the circumcision [was] unto Peter;
8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles)
9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

Eph 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

Here are the 7 verses in the NT that tells us about Paul's call to preach the gospel of God, the good news that is explained in Ga 3 that I have been quoting. Faith is come and God will save every one from every nation who will believe the gospel of Jesus Christ, who died for the sins of the whole world and rose again. Praise God for his wonderful mercy and grace..

Ro 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Ro 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
2Co 11:7 Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely?
1Th 2:2 But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention.
1Th 2:8 So being affectionately desirous of you, we were willing to have imparted unto you, not the gospel of God only, but also our own souls, because ye were dear unto us.
1Th 2:9 For ye remember, brethren, our labour and travail: for labouring night and day, because we would not be chargeable unto any of you, we preached unto you the gospel of God.
1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

I am sure sorry that you have taken the position on the word of God that you have demonstrated in your comments.

 

Item #1 above

You are simply demonstrating that you cannot process the information you are reading in the text. This passage is addressed to Jews as opposed to gentiles and they are Jews even if they are not Jews from the heart.

Rom 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.
1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?

I am not here to teach logic and comprehension skills, and if you lack them, as you seem to, I will not be of much help to you.

Item 2
What I said about the covenants was scriptural and I quoted from the scriptures in context. The covenants pertain to the Jews and we gentiles, because of the mercy and grace of God and ones without a promise, have been made partakers of the promise of Israel, and now we who will believe are saved from our sins and made children of God by the new birth on an equal standing of children of God with the Jews and in addition to them.

1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

THE MYSTERY REVEALED IN A NUTSHELL VERSE

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

I sure wish you were not plagued with this Reformed blindness, so you could see.

 

JD, I shared scripture and proved your initial claim (that the covenants are only for ethnic Israel) to be utterly false.

We have the Adamic Covenant (non Israel), Noahic Covenant (non-Israel), Abrahamic Covenant (non-Israel) and the New Covenant (non-Israel) as evidence against your claim.