1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Face to face

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by preacher, Dec 24, 2005.

Top Posters
  1. preacher

    preacher New Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2001
    Messages:
    1,784
    Likes Received:
    0
    Exo 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

    Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

    The word for face in both verses is paw-neem which means the "face", the part that turns.(Strongs)

    How did God speak to Moses "face to face" if a man can not look upon God?
     
    #1 preacher, Dec 24, 2005
  2. Bro. Ruben

    Bro. Ruben New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2005
    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    0
    At the outset we have a contradiction here but actually, the contradiction exists in our understanding, not in the Bible.

    In Exodus 6:2-3, God Almighty was seen; not the angel of the Lord, for an angel is not Almighty. Moses saw God, not in a vision or dream, as attested by God Himself in Numbers 12:6 -8.

    Now, why can’t we accept what the Bible says. If the Old Testament people claimed they saw the Lord Almighty then they were seeing God. While in John 6:46 Jesus said that no man has seen the Father. I suggest what the OT people had seen was NOT the Father, but Someone in the Godhead. They were seeing the Word before His incarnation. Thus, they saw Jesus.

    The Almighty God was seen but NEVER God the Father.
     
    #2 Bro. Ruben, Dec 25, 2005
  3. Aaron

    Aaron Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    20,253
    Likes Received:
    1,381
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The phrase "Face to face" in that instance obviously cannot mean what we usually think it means, since no man can see God and live. Just as we can't think that 2 Sam 1:26 means that David had romantic feelings for Jonathan. I believe it is a way of implying intimacy and familiarity. I don't think it means that Moses was physically looking on God's face. He's invisible. Moses wouldn't be able to see Him with his natural eyes.
     
    #3 Aaron, Dec 25, 2005
  4. preacher

    preacher New Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2001
    Messages:
    1,784
    Likes Received:
    0
    O.K. I can go along with the idea of intimacy & familiarity, but God is not invisible. He didn't say He couldn't be looked upon at all, He said if a man did then that man wouldn't live.
     
    #4 preacher, Dec 25, 2005
  5. LorrieAB

    LorrieAB New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2005
    Messages:
    34
    Likes Received:
    0
    He apparently IS invisible. ... "face to face, AS a man...". As here being the operative.

    Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

    1Ti 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

    1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; WHOM NO MAN HATH SEEN, NOR CAN SEE: to whom be honor and power everlasting. Amen.
     
    #5 LorrieAB, Dec 25, 2005
  6. JackRUS

    JackRUS New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,043
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree with brother Ruben.

    I Rev. 1 John looks upon Jesus' face and lives. He describes His eyes in veres 14. Who would argue that Jesus is not God?

    So then in Ex. 33:20 the Father says that no man look upon My face and live. He doesn't say that no man can look upon God's face and live.

    Also in Gen. 18 Abraham sees Jesus' face and lives. Although He not doubt appeared as a man. But that is not the case in Rev. 1.
     
    #6 JackRUS, Dec 25, 2005
  7. preacher

    preacher New Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2001
    Messages:
    1,784
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks All,
    I know there's a couple of yun's that may remember me, but like I've stated in other posts, I've been out of commission for a couple of years or more. so I'm having to re-learn some stuff.
    No excuse...just the truth. I do remember it depends on the way the name of God was used, Lord God, The Lord, God, as to the idenity of which presonality(ies) the particular passage is referring to. Mabey it was something like when He appeared in the burning bush.
     
    #7 preacher, Dec 26, 2005
  8. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    1
    My pastor has spoken on this and he said that the Ex. passages translated as "face to face" comes from a Hebrew term meaning intimate meeting or encounter - a one-on-one relationship (or something to that effect). It does not mean Moses actually looked upon God's face. This term emphasized the close, direct relationship God had with Moses, which was a rather unusual situation in the OT.
     
    #8 Marcia, Dec 26, 2005
  9. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    1
    I just found this on a Jewish site:
     
    #9 Marcia, Dec 26, 2005
  10. JackRUS

    JackRUS New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,043
    Likes Received:
    0
    But did John see Jesus (God) face to face when he describes what His eyes looked like in Rev. 1:14?
     
    #10 JackRUS, Dec 27, 2005
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Loading...