1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Open or Closed?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Mar 12, 2023.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,742
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Hyper-Calvinists openly assert everything is predestine. Boettner says everything is predestined. But is that Biblical.

    No. This thread is not about Omniscience, no matter how it is defined. According to Arminianism, God knowing the future exhaustively does not predestine it. We must set aside this issue and stick with the scope of predestination.

    If everything is predestined, that is Closed Theology and God is the Author of Sin, just as Hyper-Calvinism claims

    If everything is not predestined, that is Open Theology to a limited degree, and God knowing the future exhaustively does not cause everything to be predestined according to Arminianism and all but the Hyper Calvinists.

    Therefore all Arminians and most Calvinists are open theists to a limited degree as they both agree God is not the author
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,742
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Cognitive dissonance refers to a situation involving conflicting attitudes, beliefs, or behaviors.

    Can we hold two mutually exclusive views by saying "it is a mystery?" The answer is no!

    If God planned for people to make autonomous choices, God would have created people able to make autonomous choices, and will allow autonomous choices rather than predestined choices. Since God set before people, the choice of life or death (Deuteronomy 30:6) we know God allows people to make autonomous choices, otherwise the verse would read, "have set before you either the non-choice of death only, or the non-choice of life only." Not how it reads.

    No one can logically claim everything is predestined, but not everything is predestined. No one can say we have a choice, when what they believe is we have a choice of only one thing, i.e. a non-choice.

    Thus if God is not the author of sin, our sin is not caused by predestination, and therefore our theology is Open.
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,742
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What does the word "predestination" mean? It means God has predetermined something in the future will happen, thus God will cause it to occur and that is an absolute certainty. The word does not refer to a particular action, but when used in scripture, the particular action in view can be determined by context.

    The Greek word (transliterated) "proorizo" (G4309) appears six times as a verb and always referring to an action where God causes something predetermined to occur.

    In Acts of the Apostles 4:28 the word is used to refer to God's Redemption plan formulated before creation that included the sacrifice of the Lamb of God.

    In Romans 8:29 again a part of God's Redemption plan is in view in that anyone redeemed would be then conformed to the image of His Son, thus born anew as a child of God.

    In Romans 8:30 the same group, anyone to be redeemed, will be "called" (transferred into Christ), "justified," and spiritually "glorified."

    In 1 Corinthians 2:7, Paul refers to God's Redemption plan, formulated before creation to bring those of His choosing to glory.

    In Ephesians 1:5, God predestined us (those redeemed) for bodily redemption, our adoption as sons.

    In Ephesians 1:11 again our bodily redemption has been predestined according to His Redemption plan.

    In no case, was anyone predestined to election for salvation. So two of the most important facets of a partially open theology is that everything is not predestined, and among the things not predestined are the sins we choose to commit, knowingly or unknowingly, and our choice to trust in Christ or not.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,742
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Since God planned for people to make autonomous choices, God created people able to make autonomous choices, and allows autonomous choices rather than predestined choices. Since God set before people, the choice of life or death (Deuteronomy 30:6) we know God allows people to make autonomous choices, otherwise the verse would read, "have set before you either the non-choice of death only, or the non-choice of life only." Not how it reads.

    Therefore if you do not believe God is the author of sin, and God is just to punish people for making sinful choices, rather than non-choices, you believe in partially open theology, which is the correcft Biblical Doctrine.
     
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,742
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Oops, I see I once again posted the wrong reference verse for God setting before the lost the choice of life or death, Rather than Deuteronomy 30:6, the reference should be Deuteronomy 30:19 in posts #2 and #5. My bad...
     
Loading...