Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Wrong again Austin. You need to start trusting the bible and not your Gnostic philosophy.
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The Sinners Prayer
- Thread starter Salty
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Wrong again Austin. You need to start trusting the bible and not your Gnostic philosophy.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
There is plenty of context in Romans 10 just prior to Romans 10:13, which shows the word of God is used in them having preached the Gospel to the lost souls for Conviction of their sin and in saving their soul,
prior to their showing evidence they are saved by then, being able to believe,
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved,"
with the emphasis in the Book and chapter of "whosoever believeth", in the previous verse; 11 "For the scripture saith, Whosoever" being the "whosoever" of not only Jews, but also Gentiles. 12 "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek:"
8b; "The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
The Bible teaches that only a saved saint, who's soul has been saved by God, can then pray and be heard by God and call on Him Whom they have believed, prior to them calling.
"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?
"and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? Romans 10:14,
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Are you making this up as you go along? There is ZERO context that shows this is "to the lost souls for Conviction of their sin and in saving their soul",
1 Brethren, my heart`s desire and my supplication to God is for them, that they may be saved. Ro 10
THEM = Romans 9:29-33
IMO the sinners prayer is useless with out faith. If we already have faith in Christ then we are already saved and there is no need to ask. Acts 16:31 says to believe. It doesn't require any thing else.
MB
If you would notice Acts 2;39 is about Baptism. Salvation must come first. those men speaking with Peter were already believing or they would not have asked..Their belief had already saved them.
MB
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
I started to say "you're darn right I did", because in God's process of saving a soul, "Conviction" is implied anytime we see an instance of salvation.
For me to include that would have been plausible.
However, what I said was "word of God is used in them, as it says and "having preached the Gospel to the lost souls, which is also stated.
What I added "for Conviction of their sin" to was, "having preached the Gospel to the lost souls".
Those two are combined, because a sinner's sin that is later saved, has "heard" how their personal sins were responsible for nailing Jesus to the cross, resulting in His death.
That is going to "Convict" the lost soul of their sin every time, or why else would they have a Spirit Wrought need?
The testimony of scripture and all who have a genuine testimony of salvation, who not only "believe", but have Assurance, who show Perseverance, and a "teachable Spirit", with an appetite for Spiritual things, include the fact that the school master has taught them what sin is through the Word and, first, Convicted them, before they experienced the New Birth.
If they are eventually saved, they are also, Granted Spirit Wrought REPENTANCE & Spirit Wrought FAITH.
I didn't throw that in, but neither does God explain every detail of how He saves a soul, every time He records an instance of Him saving someone.
But, the same details are implied, in each instance.
Is that the only hair-slitting minor detail, as a misunderstanding needing clarification, that you could find fault with?
We're in Romans 10.
That's the Word and the Gospel and whatever else is entailed, used as the INSTRUMENTALITY along with the Spirit of God, in His One Way of salvation.
Yep. Romans 9:3 "For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 "Who are Israelites;"
Then, ...? There is Romans 10 of God saving some through His Word and the Gospel, who THEN believed.
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Not wrong. I read your posts and you consistently place man over God time and time again.
As for your claims about me, you have no post that you can point to where I deny the physical body exists or that one could do anything physically since only the spirit would be of importance. Therefore, your claims of gnosticism are empty and merely your attempt to deflect from your quoted statements that lift up man as the chooser of his own salvation.
The Bible is entirely trustworthy. (snip)
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Once again, you claim to be the Bible and Christ, so it would seem.
Since I trust the Bible and my King, but I don't trust you, it can only be concluded that you think you are at the level of the Bible and Christ. Here's a truth...you aren't.
ADMIN NOTE:
Okay, it has been established that you disagree - or if you please - you have a difference in interpretation.
Now, lets move on
You mention 'conviction' a lot, and you don't even know what it pertains to, you just parrot the evangelical status quo. John 16:8, a misunderstood, abused, and misused passage by evangelicals:
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth: It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I go, I will send him unto you.
8 And he, when he is come, will convict the world in respect of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
This is the coming of 'the Comforter':
1 And when the day of Pentecost was now come, they were all together in one place.
2 And suddenly there came from heaven a sound as of the rushing of a mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them tongues parting asunder, like as of fire; and it sat upon each one of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2
This is 'the world' that the Comforter convicted through the mouths of His witnesses:
20 Jesus answered him, I have spoken openly to the world; I ever taught in synagogues, and in the temple, where all the Jews come together; and in secret spake I nothing. Jn 18
This is 'the Comforter convicting the world'. It was CHRIST HIMSELF speaking through Peter and His witnesses in convicting the Jews of the heinous crime of crucifying the Lord of Glory. Read the record of the Spirit convicting the apostate ecclesiastical system of the Jews, through the testimony of His witnesses, of the murder of the Righteous One, and declare Him indeed to be righteous. Take note, in all these examples given, of the redundancy of the message from the Comforter to the Jews; YOU KILLED HIM, BUT GOD RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD:
Acts 2:
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and spake forth unto them, saying, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and give ear unto my words.
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God unto you by mighty works and wonders and signs which God did by him in the midst of you, even as ye yourselves know;
23 him, being delivered up by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye by the hand of lawless men did crucify and slay:
24 whom God raised up, having loosed the pangs of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly, that God hath made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom ye crucified.
40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation.
Acts 3:
12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this man? or why fasten ye your eyes on us, as though by our own power or godliness we had made him to walk?
13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Servant Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied before the face of Pilate, when he had determined to release him.
14 But ye denied the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted unto you,
15 and killed the Prince of life; whom God raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
23 And it shall be, that every soul that shall not hearken to that prophet, shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.
Acts 4:
8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders,
9 if we this day are examined concerning a good deed done to an impotent man, by what means this man is made whole;
10 be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even in him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Acts 5:
27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council. And the high priest asked them,
28 saying, We strictly charged you not to teach in this name: and behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and intend to bring this man`s blood upon us.
29 But Peter and the apostles answered and said, We must obey God rather than men.
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew, hanging him on a tree.
31 Him did God exalt with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, to give repentance to Israel, and remission of sins.
32 And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Acts 6:
8 And Stephen, full of grace and power, wrought great wonders and signs among the people.
9 But there arose certain of them that were of the synagogue called the synagogue of the Libertines, and of the Cyrenians, and of the Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and Asia, disputing with Stephen.
10 And they were not able to withstand the wisdom and the Spirit by which he spake.
15 And all that sat in the council, fastening their eyes on him, saw his face as it had been the face of an angel.
Acts 7:
51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Spirit: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets did not your fathers persecute? and they killed them that showed before of the coming of the Righteous One; of whom ye have now become betrayers and murderers;
53 ye who received the law as it was ordained by angels, and kept it not.
55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 and said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing on the right hand of God. Acts 7
Acts 10:
39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the country of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom also they slew, hanging him on a tree.
40 Him God raised up the third day, and gave him to be made manifest,
41 not to all the people, but unto witnesses that were chosen before of God, even to us, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.
42 And he charged us to preach unto the people, and to testify that this is he who is ordained of God to be the Judge of the living and the dead.
Acts 13:
16 And Paul stood up, and beckoning with the hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, hearken:
27 For they that dwell in Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath, fulfilled them by condemning him.
28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet asked they of Pilate that he should be slain.
29 And when they had fulfilled all things that were written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a tomb.
30 But God raised him from the dead:
31 and he was seen for many days of them that came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are now his witnesses unto the people.
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Will do...unless our friend promotes man...again.
Humanism does not get a pass with me, Salty. It's a theological issue that cannot be ignored.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
What are you going to do? Reply to him so much that he bows before the Lordship of Christ? and Honor Him in worshipping Him by agreeing with God? concerning His revealed Will?
I put our friend on "Ignore" a long time ago. REVIVAL!!!
I clicked his name and "Ignore" should be to the right in blue writing.
I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Great Forum Feature!
It works!!!
I have also always seen your half of the what? Talk? It's not like you can feed on each other's Communion with God, sharing His Word, together.
I got a 6-month ban and we would miss you contending for the faith here too, for it to be caused by a lost cause, or I mean dead wood, or whatever.
My ban was over repeating the same words a poster used that appeared to sound just like he was saying he was lost.
Bam, it must have looked just like I was coming off with it(?) No biggy.
Just be sure you're possessing Righteous Temperament.
Yuk yuk yuk yuk yuk.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
How is man responding to the gospel and trusting God for his salvation putting man over God? Do you not trust what the bible says or are those verses on your ignore list?
You do know what Gnostic philosophy is don't you? As I have pointed out to you numerous times the foundation of your theology is Stoicism, Neoplatonism and Gnostic Manichasism that Augustine brought into the church and Calvinism is just an extension of those ideas. Do you deny divine determinism? How about no free will so as to be able to freely trust in God for salvation? And lets not forget that God has to regenerate one before they are able to believe. These are all things that you have held to and all come from pagan teachings that Augustine incorporated into Christianity.
This is the OP - in post # 1
lets get back on the discussion WITHOUT any insults .
I found this definition of Humanism
"Humanist beliefs stress the potential value and goodness of human beings, emphasize common human needs, and seek solely rational ways of solving human problems."
Thus that is the definition I am going to use
We had a good discussion going - lets keep it that way!!!
lets get back on the discussion WITHOUT any insults .
I found this definition of Humanism
"Humanist beliefs stress the potential value and goodness of human beings, emphasize common human needs, and seek solely rational ways of solving human problems."
Thus that is the definition I am going to use
We had a good discussion going - lets keep it that way!!!
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
I don't cry for Salvation as some do... My Salvation is in Christ alone, the sinners pray to me is to bless others and to thank the Lord for the 77 years that he has blessed this unworthy one... And help me do better as I serve him daily... Brother Glen
But did you not cry out for salvation at some point in your life?
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Are you trying to say that I referred to John 16:8; "And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:"?
And when Jesus was speaking here to His disciples John 16:5 "But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou?
6 "But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart.
Jesus was speaking to His disciples about The Holy Spirit being Sent as The Comforter to the Lord's church at Jerusalem, on Pentecost, (later, "it filled all the house where they were sitting")
The Holy Spirit would not ever be used by The Lord's churches to reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment, except to The Jews???
9 "Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 "Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 "Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged."
The previous verse says, in John 16:7; "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 "And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 "Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 "Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 "Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged".
Is that prince of the world, in verse 11, only the devil of the Jews?
Or, in15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
The Holy Spirit is only going to "testify" of Jesus to the Jews?
I thought the Holy Spirit was used to Convict every soul, Old, and New Testament, and until Jesus Comes Again,
in The Preparatory Work of the Holy Spirit in Salvation(???)
Is this where you got John 16? and only John 16? Oh and Acts 2?
Why didn't you say so?
And why didn't you list out what the Bible says, in: (Colossians 3:11)(Romans 3:19-20; 7:7-13)(Romans 3:23)(Romans 2:4)(Psalms 51:4, Luke 18:9-14)(Luke 18:9-14, Isaiah 64:6)(II Corinthians 7: 10).
That's all good stuff.
Too Convicting for you?
A. The areas of conviction - In John 16:8-11, we find three areas wherein men are convicted.
1. Of sin - God convicts men of great sins they have committed (Acts 2:36-37), of original sin, of failure in duties, and of the sin of unbelief.
2. Of righteousness - Men are convicted of the righteousness of Christ, and of their need of His righteousness (Matthew 5:6).
3. Of judgment to come - Judgment often has reference to rule. Men are convinced that just as Satan will be vanquished, so Christ is the coming king, and that resistance is folly.
The powers of evil have no chance for victory, but all will ultimately stand before God.
B. The need of conviction.
1. Without conviction men would not be ready to admit their total defilement, nor to come to Christ as helpless beggars. "Christ is all" (Colossians 3:11) in salvation, and God would have the redeemed to understand this. Conviction, therefore, prepares the soul for faith in Christ.
2. Conviction is preparatory to repentance. Godly sorrow (II Corinthians 7:10) precedes repentance which is a permanent change of heart and mind about sin.
C. The means of conviction. While conviction is a work of God's Spirit, yet He is pleased to use certain truths in this work. Just as He often uses the truth of God’s wrath to awaken sinners so in conviction He uses:
1. The law (Romans 3:19-20; 7:7-13). Men commonly judge themselves by their neighbors' actions, but in conviction, they see that it is God’s glory they fall short of (Romans 3:23).
2. The goodness of God (Romans 2:4). Many have testified that it was a view of God's goodness that convinced them of their sin.
D. The earmarks of true conviction.
1. Real conviction causes a man to accept his guilt
(Psalms 51:4, Luke 18:9-14).
2. Real conviction destroys self-righteousness
(Luke 18:9-14, Isaiah 64:6).
3. Real conviction sees sin as being against God
(Psalms 51:4, Luke l5:18).
4. Real conviction leads one to Christ, rather than to worldly despair
(II Corinthians 7: 10).
And you are trying to say that is the end-all that has to do with "Conviction"?
That John 16:8 is to the Jews, only?
Then, over here to John 18, Jesus is speaking before The High Priest.
What about that? He spoke to the Jews, in that instance, of "the world"?
Strong work.
Apply that to whatever, wherever, and not everywhere?
Not happening.
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