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Can You Pray A Man To Heaven?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by tyndale1946, Mar 22, 2023.

  1. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    If you can pray a man to Heaven, what good is Jesus Christ?... Brother Glen:)

    James 5:16 The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

    But it will NEVER open Heavens door!
     
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  2. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    No, we cannot pray someone into the good graces of God.
    Also, notice what the Scriptures do say...


    "....The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."

    " Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth." ( John 9:31 ).

    " The eyes of the Lord are upon the righteous, and his ears [are open] unto their cry.
    16 The face of the Lord [is] against them that do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth." ( Psalms 34:15-16 ).



    God does not hear anyone who is not His, when it comes to prayer.
    If He does hear and answer, you can rest assured that He has granted His mercy and grace to you, whoever it is who reads this and has truly believed on His Son.


    What's more, we as believers have no part to play in our salvation, as we cannot influence the Lord to grant His gifts to anyone.
    It's His choice to have mercy on one, and not another.

    See Romans 9.
     
    #2 Dave G, Mar 22, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2023
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  3. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    Can you pray a man to Heaven. No.
    Are you asking if you can by praying for someone actually have an influence on whether the person who you pray for gets saved? Yes.
    You can be the strictest Calvinist in the world and if you keep in mind that God ordains the means as well as the end of everything then there should be no hesitation to pray. But if you cannot figure that out ditch the Calvinism and if you're debating or thinking about Calvinism and you can't reconcile issues like that in your mind stay away from it until you can.
     
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  4. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    I've got one for you that you may know. Dr. Stanley loves it, to pray for anyone, lost or saved, however, the lost might not be in the text.

    My take on praying it for the lost is that Jesus has ever lived to pray for us, meaning always and that means before we were saved.

    So, why not pray this for them to.

    Dr. Stanley goes on about this prayer changing someone!!

    As far as availing much, why not.

    I'll put the scripture below.

    I have benefitted from Dr. Stanley's ministry and defiantly this prayer.

    Try it. We need to be praying so much more, anyway(?)

    "Availeth a little bit"?

    Noooooo.

    We could probably google Colossians 1 with Dr. Stanley's name and get a couple of videos on it.

    Looks like we'd need to change the wording to pray for the lost. and why not try it?

    Let's SEE God Save some folks!!

    Verse 1:9, I pray for every church member and the men in the prayer room, the sick, etc.

    All right then, found the videos, and he calls it, "prayer that moves God"!!!

    God is Immutable, but we get it.

    As we draw nigh God can let us in on seeing Him change people and save the lost, can't we?

    THIS IS IT: Charles Stanley - Praying With Impact ยป Online Sermons 2023

    This one is Col. 1:9, but only a couple of minutes: https://www.intouch.org/read/daily-devotions/a-life-changing-prayer

    dr. charles stanley colossians 1 - Google Search

    This was from the default
    Berean Standard Bible, at BibleHub.com.

    I like the KJV's wording it says, too, etc.


    1;9; "For this reason, since the day we heard about you, we have not stopped praying for you and asking God to fill you with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding,

    10 "so that you may walk in a manner worthy of the Lord and may please Him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,

    11 "being strengthened with all power according to His glorious might so that you may have full endurance and patience, and joyfully

    12 "giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the light

    13 "He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of His beloved Son,

    14 "in whom we have redemption the forgiveness of sins."

    Right, right, right.

    Correct, correct, correct.

    ...
    The KJV has Jesus' blood in vs 14, for one thing. Pleading the blood has to touch Heaven, right?

    9 "For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

    10 "That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

    11 "Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

    12 "Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

    13 "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

    14 "In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:"

    Looks like verses 15 thru 20 are just Glorious, also,

    To just go on with it!
     
    #4 Alan Gross, Mar 23, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2023
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