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Featured The True Gospel of Christ's Saving Death

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by KenH, Apr 8, 2023.

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  1. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    You silly Calvinists always keep running back to the same misunderstanding of salvation. Only God can save and He has chosen to save those that believe in His son. So it is 100% salvation by God and it is in response to man trusting in His son just as the bible says. So the question is, why do you hold to a false gospel?
     
    #81 Silverhair, Apr 10, 2023
  2. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Indeed not, but you might like to consider how the Gospel was preached by the Apostles as we read it in Acts
    Firstly, they did not tell everyone that Jesus loved them sooooo much, and wouldn't they love Him back?
    But secondly, they did not tell people that some of them might be saved and some weren't and there was nothing they could do about it.

    What they did was to preach Jesus as the Christ and as Lord and to bid men repent and put their trust in Him.
    And that is what we must do.
     
    #82 Martin Marprelate, Apr 11, 2023
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  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The general redemption neither denies salvation is solely by the grace of God or that Christ died to secure salvation for His sheep.
    Prove the understanding of the general redemption is another gospel! Jude 1:4 identifies the Lord Jesus Christ as the Sovereign in 2 Peter 2:1 cross reference. There are multiple well known references to the general redemption.
     
    #83 37818, Apr 11, 2023
  4. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Without hearing Christ paid for one's sins, on what basis is one to believe Christ as one's Savior? Romans 5:8, 1 Corinthians 15:3-4.
     
    #84 37818, Apr 11, 2023
  5. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    You believe a false doctrine about the propitiatory death of Christ. I believe what the Bible teaches about the propitiatory death of Christ.
     
    #85 KenH, Apr 11, 2023
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  6. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Apparently, Martin Lloyd-Jones placed much less emphasis on Biblical sound doctrine than God's Word does:

    2 John 1:10-11 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: for he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

    (emphasis mine)
     
    #86 KenH, Apr 11, 2023
  7. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    By your very own words, you teach a gospel conditioned on man and not 100% on the free grace of God in Christ.
     
    #87 KenH, Apr 11, 2023
  8. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    1. There is no way to know that. One would have to assume that we have complete sermons in all cases in the Bible, which we do not; for example: Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort.

    (emphasis mine)

    2. By teaching, as the Bible does, that God elected, God chose, God predestinated, it eliminates the idea of man electing himself in some form or fashion, or man choosing in some form or fashion, or man deciding in some form or fashion by his own "libertarian free will". The language of exclusivity eliminates any idea opposed to it.

    3. I would not want to proclaim a "partial Christ". The apostle Paul certainly did not: Acts 20:20 And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you.
     
    #88 KenH, Apr 11, 2023
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  9. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    Like I said earlier, I see how you could have that opinion. I personally have no problem saying to anyone that Christ died for their sins. But I'm telling you that strict Calvinists like Owen, who believed in a strict particular atonement, and had a high level of belief in determinism and predestination and election - also had no problem offering the benefits of Christ to anyone who would come. Owen thought that the only evidence of being "elect" was a changed heart and life so he did not ever try to be the gatekeeper so to speak of who it is that are elect. Calvinists who do that are wrong but that does not mean Calvinists don't believe in a true offer of the gospel.
     
    #89 DaveXR650, Apr 11, 2023
  10. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    The false teaching of general redemption says that God will punish people for the exact same sins that Christ paid the full penalty for already.

    The only way out of the theological corner you have painted yourself into is if you believe that all people will eventually be saved, either in this life or in the future age/ages, as "Christian universalists" teach.
     
    #90 KenH, Apr 11, 2023
  11. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    See my post #27 earlier in this thread.
     
    #91 KenH, Apr 11, 2023
  12. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    I rely on Martin Lloyd-Jones as being fairly sound. I don't think he's infallible. I think in the passage in 2 John "this doctrine" refers to the teachers that did not confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. I think several of the Calvinists and the non-Calvinists on this board take their theology to unscriptural, harmful extremes. But I don't think the 2 John warning applies to any of them.
     
    #92 DaveXR650, Apr 11, 2023
  13. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    When the gospel is preached, which should be what every sermon is about, it should include that Christ will save His people by His propitiatory sacrifice, not necessarily in those exact words but there are plenty of Biblical ways to proclaim Christ's effectual redemption of those for whom He died when proclaiming the gospel truth of perfect righteousness, imputation, justification, glorification, predestination, etc.
     
    #93 KenH, Apr 11, 2023
  14. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    The gospel is a declaration of finished work of Christ, it is not a offer. God does with His creation according to His purposes, not the other way around.
     
    #94 KenH, Apr 11, 2023
  15. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    So what do you teach? Does man not have to trust in Christ Jesus before they are saved? If you teach that then you are teaching another gospel and it needs to be condemned.
     
    #95 Silverhair, Apr 11, 2023
  16. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    God never leaves His elect in false doctrine. For example, He brought Apollos, in His timing, under the hearing of the gospel so that he would hear and believe: Acts 18:26 Whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.
     
    #96 KenH, Apr 11, 2023
  17. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    God regenerates His elect by giving them a new heart to replace their stony hearts and gives the gifts of repentance toward God and faith toward the Christ. God's elect are made willing in the day of His power (Psalms 110:3)

    As Jonah said in Jonah 2:9: "Salvation is of the Lord."
     
    #97 KenH, Apr 11, 2023
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  18. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    KenH who do you think we should listen to on this matter you or the Holy Spirit? I do believe it would be wise to listen to God.
    1Jn 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

    Christ paid the sin debt for all and made salvation available to all just as the bible tells us. You continue to look through your false theology.
     
    #98 Silverhair, Apr 11, 2023
  19. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    You love to take scripture out of context in the attempt to support your view. The is a miserable way to do bible study but it does help to explain your faulty views. You are trusting in your Calvinism rather than the bible.
     
    #99 Silverhair, Apr 11, 2023
  20. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Apparently, you do not believe Christ when He said, "It is finished." Apparently, you believe that Christ is only a partial savior and that His propitiatory death did not save anyone(and could end up saving no one) but did nothing more than to make everyone savable if they finish the work that Christ started. Thus, according to your teaching, Christ could end up saving no one at all if no one meets whatever conditions you think humans have to meet for salvation using their alleged "libertarian free will."
     
    #100 KenH, Apr 11, 2023
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