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Featured Mark 15:42

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by 37818, Apr 7, 2023.

  1. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    What day of the week was that?

    And are you sure?

    "The day after the Passover (the 15th) is actually the first High Sabbath of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, but often the whole week beginning with the Day before the Passover (when the Passover Lamb is killed) and ending with the second High Sabbath is called "The Passover Feast" or "The Feast of Unleavened Bread".

    "And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath",

    I know Thursday comes the day before Friday, but I, in no way, will say that this "sabbath" is referring to a "sabbath on Friday, or Saturday".

    No way.

    Not when there is a perfectly acceptable alternative view.


    It just makes Jesus and the Bible a couple of liars;

    "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." [Matthew 12:40]
     
    #21 Alan Gross, Apr 9, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2023
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The week days, as we name them, are from midnight to midnight.
    The Jewish calendar days are from sundown to sundown.
    Mark 14:17 is explicitly at or after the end of the 14th of Nisan. If it is on a Wednesday, verse 17 is Wednesday evening!

    The Day of Preparation is the Jewish 6th day of the week which begins on our Thursday evening! ". . . And now when the even was come, . . ."

    Open your ears.
     
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    FYI, of the four gospel accounts only John uses the midnight to midnight day reckoning. We know this because John uses midnight to midnight hours. Even so John does not change when and how the Jewish days are observed.
     
  4. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    'After Three Days'

    "Matthew, Mark and Luke are very specific about when Jesus died. John records only the time of the crucifixion (John 19:14-16). Luke gives the most succinct report:

    "And it was about the sixth hour [when He was crucified], and there was darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. Then the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was torn in two. And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, "Father, 'into Your hands I commend My spirit.'" And having said this, He breathed His last." (Luke 23:44-46)

    "Jesus remained on the cross for three hours before He died "at the ninth hour" (Mark 15:34; see Matthew 27:46). Since they were using the Hebrew method of counting the hours of the day from sunrise, the gospel writers indicate that Jesus was crucified around noon and died about 3 PM. They are remarkably unanimous on this point.

    "Mark continues the account:

    "Now when evening had come, because it was the Preparation Day, that is, the day before the Sabbath, Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent council member, who was himself waiting for the kingdom of God, coming and taking courage, went in to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. . . . And . . . he granted the body to Joseph. Then he bought fine linen, took Him down, and wrapped Him in the linen. And he laid Him in a tomb which had been hewn out of the rock, and rolled a stone against the door of the tomb." (Mark 15:42-43, 45-46)

    "Several points stand out in this passage:

    » "Evening was beginning—at best Joseph had only about three hours before sunset, when the Sabbath would begin. The task of preparing and applying the spices for burial required work, which is expressly forbidden on the Sabbath (Exodus 20:8-10). Additionally, Deuteronomy 21:22-23 demands that an executed criminal be buried before nightfall, and the Jewish law of the time required all dead bodies to be buried before a Sabbath or a feast day (John 19:31).

    » "Before he could take the body down, Joseph had to go before Pilate and receive permission. At first, Pilate did not believe Jesus had died so quickly, so he called the centurion of the crucifixion detail to verify it (Mark 15:44-45). This delay must have taken at least a half hour.

    » "After being granted the body, Joseph went to a local shop and bought several yards of fine linen in which to wrap Jesus. With the help of Nicodemus, he then took the body down, wrapped it in the linen—along with about a hundred pounds of spices—and placed it in the tomb (John 19:39-41).

    "With all this activity and work between the various locations, Joseph and Nicodemus must have had very little daylight left when they finally rolled the stone over the entrance to the tomb. On this point all the accounts again concur; sunset was very near (Matthew 27:57; Mark 15:42; Luke 23:54; John 19:31).

    "No one disputes that Jesus was laid "in the heart of the earth" at sunset. If, as we have shown, He was buried for exactly 72 hours, He was also resurrected at sunsetnot at dawn!

    The Preparation Day of the Passover

    "All four gospel writers mention that Jesus was tried, convicted, crucified, and buried on a preparation day. Without any further clarification, one would assume that they meant a Friday, the weekly preparation day before the Sabbath. But can other days be considered preparation days as well?

    "Yes, indeed! God Himself gave the instructions about the use of the preparation day to the Israelites before they reached Mount Sinai (Exodus 16:23). The Jews later considered this to be so important that they made sure each of the holy days, which are also Sabbaths, was preceded by a preparation day. Since the holy days can fall on any day of the week, the preparation day can fall on any day of the week as well.

    "This is very relevant to the Passover. Not only is the Passover a festival in its own right, but it also functions as the preparation day for a holy day, the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. According to the calculated Hebrew Calendar, Passover can fall on a Monday, Wednesday, Friday, or Sabbath.

    "Clearly, our Savior was crucified on a Passover day (Matthew 26:2). Thus, it was on one of these days of the week that Jesus was killed and buried.

    "But was the Sabbath in question the weekly Sabbath or an annual, holy day Sabbath? What can the Bible tell us?

    "John writes, "Now it was the Preparation Day of the Passover" (John 19:14). The word "Passover" in this context requires some explanation. At some time before Christ's day, the Jews had begun calling the day of Passover and the following seven-day Feast of Unleavened Bread (Leviticus 23:6-8) by the single name "Passover." This has caused great confusion for non-Jews, especially when they read the account of this particular Passover. But John 19:31 should clear up any confusion: "Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day) . . ."!

    "So, without a doubt, Jesus was crucified on a Passover day, Nisan 14, and the Sabbath that followed was the first day of Unleavened Bread, an annual holy day, a high day. This only makes sense, for the apostle Paul says in I Corinthians 5:7, "For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us."

    con't
     
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  5. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    What Day of the Week?

    "Every year as Easter approaches, churches often proclaim on banners, marquees, signs, billboards and television, "He is risen!" It would probably be a good bet to wager that most of the members of these churches have really never studied the section of Scripture from which this quotation comes and its corresponding sections in the other three accounts.

    "We should not accept the traditional view so easily, and to find the truth, we must return to the story flow. The three synoptic writers (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) record that Joseph and Nicodemus had an audience as they prepared Jesus' body. "And the women who had come with Him from Galilee followed after, and they observed the tomb and how His body was laid" (Luke 23:55).

    "If we continue in Luke's account, we get the impression that the women hurried to a spice shop, bought the spices and oils, prepared them, and then rested on the Sabbath (verse 56). But we would be wrong!

    "We have to go to Mark 16:1 for some vital information: "Now when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, that they might come and anoint Him." Logistically, the sequence of events cannot be otherwise. If Joseph barely had time to bury Jesus' body before sundown, how much less time would the women have had to do all that they needed to do!

    "So the harmonized accounts show that when Joseph took Jesus down from the cross, the women followed him to see where he would place the body. They then returned to their lodging and observed the holy day Sabbath, the first day of Unleavened Bread. The day after the holy day, they went to a shop, bought spices and oil, took them back to their lodging, prepared them for use on the body and "they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment" (Luke 23:56).

    "There were two Sabbaths within that 72-hour period!

    "These women bought and prepared spices "when the Sabbath had past" and then "rested on the Sabbath"! They rested twice: once on "a high day" and once on the weekly Sabbath two days later.

    "This can mean only one thing! Jesus was crucified and buried on a Wednesday, the holy day fell on Thursday, the women prepared spices on Friday and our Savior was resurrected at sunset on the Sabbath as the day ended! The events cannot be worked out any other way with the plain evidence provided in the Holy Scriptures!"
     
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  6. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    I believe he was calling it a high day because it was the 15th of Nisan a holy convocation day of rest, a sabbath.
     
  7. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    I do not believe so.

    in the first month, on the fourteenth of the month, between the evenings, is the passover to Jehovah; Lev 23:5
    cleanse out, therefore, the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, according as ye are unleavened, for also our passover for us was sacrificed -- Christ, 1 Cor 5:7 YLT

    What did the Israelites begin doing beginning the evening of the 14th day? Remove and clean their quarters of leaven unto the killing of the passover between ninth hour until the 12th hour of the 14th ? Yet they begin by eating unleavened bread the evening beginning the 14th. Ex 12:18 as you posted
    'In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, in the evening, ye do eat unleavened things until the one and twentieth day of the month, at evening;

    Do you think there was any lamb present on the table the night of the Lord's Supper? I am not sure there was.
     
  8. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    One!
     
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  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Do you deny Mark 14:12? ". . . And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, . . ."
    Exodus 12:18 defines the seven days of unleven bread.
     
  10. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    What I do not deny is that, Jesus was/is the Lamb of God that took away the sin of the world, the LORD'S Passover, that was slain on the 14th day of the first month sometime between what we would call 3 PM to 6 PM.
    Jesus had to be slain on the 14th day between the 9th and the 12th hour In order to be, the LORD'S Passover and I believe he did just that.
    That day which began at evening, about 6 PM they begin to prepared for the feast, a holy convocation day, which begin at evening the 15th which included eating the Passover Lamb which had been killed between the two evenings on the 14th.

    They made ready the place where the the Passover would be eaten the following evening but Jesus would be dead by then.

    'Ye have known that after two days the passover cometh, [the 14th] and the Son of Man is delivered up to be crucified.' Then were gathered together the chief priests, and the scribes, and the elders of the people, to the court of the chief priest who was called Caiaphas; and they consulted together that they might take Jesus by guile, and kill him, and they said, 'Not in the feast, [15th a holy convocation, high day sabbath] that there may not be a tumult among the people.' From Matt 26

    They led, therefore, Jesus from Caiaphas to the praetorium, and it was early, and they themselves did not enter into the praetorium, that they might not be defiled, but that they might eat the passover; John 18:28
     
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Then you deny Mark 14:12-17 and Christ being crucified the following day per the New Testament history.

    There were to be seven Passover lambs that week. See Numbers 28:16-25, for all 8 days.
     
    #31 37818, Apr 10, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2023
  12. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    I believe, "when they killed the passover", is the Day before the official Preparation Day and that it is also sometimes referred to as, "the first day of unleavened bread",

    That "the first day of unleavened bread" "when they killed the passover",
    would be the 13th.

    I believe the following was spoken on the 12th.


    Monday, 12th; I believe the following was spoken on the 12th, 'Ye have known that after two days the passover cometh, [the 14th].

    Tuesday, 13th; "And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?"

    The “passover” (the pesach) doesn’t necessarily refer to the paschal lamb, but to “the chagigah, the paschal sacrifices (lambs, kids, bulls) which were offered throughout the festival week.”

    The day after the Passover (the 14th) is actually the actual High Day Sabbath of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (15th), but often the whole week beginning with the Day (Tuedsday, 13th, "when they killed the passover", as above) before the Passover (Wednesday, 14th) ,...is called "The Passover Feast" or "The Feast of Unleavened Bread".

    "Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?" Matthew 26:17.

    Again, in this case, on Tuesday 13th they started calling it, the first day of "The Passover Feast" or the first day of "The Feast of Unleavened Bread", the Day before the Passover (Wednesday, 14th).

    Luke 22:1 uses 'the feast of unleavened bread' and 'passover' to refer to the entire feast—not just the meal (“the Feast of Unleavened Bread", which is called the Passover, was approaching”).

    "Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover." Luke 22:1.

    And again, the “Passover” (the pesach) doesn’t necessarily refer to the paschal lamb, but to “the chagigah, the paschal sacrifices (lambs, kids, bulls) which were offered throughout the festival week.”



    Wednesday, 14th; "the passover cometh, [the 14th] and the Son of Man is delivered up to be crucified."

    "Now it was the Preparation Day of the Passover" (John 19:14)

    "Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day) . . ."! John 19:31.

    Thursday, 15th; "the feast, [15th a holy convocation, high day sabbath]

    "the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day)" John 19:31b

    Friday, 16th; "Now when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, that they might come and anoint Him."

    Saturday 17th; The women rested on this Friday Sabbath and the Resurrection took place late in the evening. "And they returned,... and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment", Luke 23:56.

    Sunday 18th; Mary goes to the tomb very early and it is empty.

    "The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre." John 20:1.


    "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." [Matthew 12:40]


     
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  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Do you have Scriptures for this?

    I have Exodus 12. Numbers 28:16-25 and Deuteronomy 16:8.
     
  14. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to try to make you happy, by only talking about, 'LORD’S Passover'.

    So, as opposed to, my insisting on saying, 'They didn't wait until the official Preparation Day to kill a bunch of paschal sacrifices (lambs, kids, bulls), for people to eat, throughout the festival week,' as I still will say below, using the scripture:
    Luke 22:1; where 'the feast of unleavened bread' and 'passover' refer to the entire feast—not just the meal (in other words, the days of “the Feast of Unleavened Bread", which is called the "Passover", were approaching).

    "Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover." Luke 22:1.
    ...


    The plot becomes a bit clearer if we read: “then came the days for the feast of unleavened bread”, instead of “then came the day for the feast of unleavened bread”.

    The translated word “day” can apparently mean “days” also. Is that right?

    Saying 'the day for' can still imply 'the days for', too.

    I know 'Sabbath', later, can be rendered, or express, 'Sabbaths', right?

    When the women got active (Sunday) after they rested (again)(Saturday) after (Thursday and Saturday)(both) the Sabbath(s).

    KJV has Sabbath and that is true, or if they said Sabbaths, that is true, too.

    The official Passover is the 14th day of the month:

    "In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at twilight, is the LORD’S Passover. (Leviticus 23:5)"

    "and you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of this month, when the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill their lambs at twilight." (Exodus 12:6)".

    "This day shall be for you a memorial day, and you shall keep it as a feast to the Lord; throughout your generations, as a statute forever, you shall keep it as a feast." (Exodus 12:14)".

    Based on the Gospel narratives, Jesus and His disciples ate the Last Supper at night, on the beginning of the 14th day (the memorial day).

    After eating He was arrested, tried, and crucified during the daylight and died on the 14th, the Old Testament day of the LORD’s Passover.

    Originally in Egypt and centuries thereafter, at sunset between the evenings of the 13th and 14th, they slew the lamb. Sunset marks the change of day.

    They slew it as the sun dipped into the horizon on the 14th.

    They applied the blood on the 14th.

    They ate it that night of the 14th.

    The death angel came through this night of the 14th.

    If any lamb was left till morning, they were to burn it on the 14th.

    They left Egypt by the night of the 15th (Deuteronomy 16:1; this too makes clear that the Passover was slain and eaten on the 14th; they can't eat and leave on the 15th at night, yet burn leftover lamb by the morning of the 14th per the command).

    Here is my reinterpretation from the ancient Hebrew of Exodus 12:6:

    EXODUS 12:6

    Let it be established that it (the lamb) shall be corralled and safeguarded to the point at which the 14th day of the month is even at its door.

    At the head, or beginning, of this day, shall the entire house of Israel and the descendants thereof and the entire house of Jacob and his descendants come together to slay it.

    This shall always be done at twilight at that point in between the two days when the darkness is mingled with the Sunset.

    NOTE: This means that the Passover lamb shall be killed at twilight between the 13th day of the month and the 14th day of the month.

    Ideally, at the precise moment at which the darkness of the 14th day has overtaken the light of the 13th day at its Sunset.

    Numbers; 28:16-25 is a reiteration of Exodus 12:6-20. The 14th is Passover.

    The 15th to 21st is Feast of Unleavened Bread.


    Luke 22:1 uses 'the feast of unleavened bread' and 'passover' to refer to the entire feast—not just the meal (“the Feast of Unleavened Bread", which is called the Passover, was approaching”).

    "Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover." Luke 22:1.



    I'm not talking about 'the Feast of Unleavened Bread', as what I distinctly call;

    There were a LOT of people to feed and a LOT of work to do.

    So, they didn't wait until the official Preparation Day to kill a bunch of paschal sacrifices (lambs, kids, bulls), for people to eat, throughout the festival week.

    "the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover,"
     
    #34 Alan Gross, Apr 10, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2023
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    When do Christians celebrate the death of Christ? On Good Friday.

    When do folks sow confusion when Christ's resurrection demonstrates He is the Son of God. On Saturday.

    When will they repent and feel ashamed? On Sunday.

    For Christians in the age of Grace, it is Saturday, but we have a smile in our hearts because Sunday is coming!!
     
  16. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  17. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I don't want to get tied up with this question, but I thought I'd offer a couple of observations from my recent preaching on our Lord's trials and sufferings.
    The first is the masterful use of irony in John 18:28. He shows the hypocrisy of the Jewish leaders who will not enter the Praetorium, lest by contact with Gentiles they become unclean and not be able to kill and eat the Passover lamb. This at the very time that they were conspiring to kill the true Passover Lamb.

    Secondly, Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus show their love for Christ, albeit late in the day, in that they are prepared to become ceremonially unclean to take part in the Passover through their contact with His body (John 19:38-40).
     
  18. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    What is not commonly understood.
    The 15th of Nisan was not to fall one the Preperation Day before the seventh day Sabbath. And according Mark 14:12-16 the day Christ was crucified was on the 15th of Nisan being the day following the 14th of Nisan, Mark 14:12 per Exodus 12:18.

    Also the feast of unleavened bread, the 15th-21st, Deuteronomy 16:8, are not the same seven days as the days of unleavened bread, 14th-20th, per Exodus 12:18.
     
  19. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Who's talking about "the seventh day Sabbath"?

    Did you take a wrong turn at the "Sabbath", again?

    How many times are you going to do that?
     
  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Mark 15:42, ". . . it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath, . . ."
    Fact, our Thursday evening to our Friday evening is known to be the Jewish Preparation Day before the seventh day Sabbath. And it is never the 15th of Nisan following the 14th of Nisan Mark 14:12-16.
     
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