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Featured Bought versus Redeemed

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Apr 20, 2023.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    1) Recall this poster questioned my presentation of the Greek as reflected in published views of Greek scholars? :)
    2) The textual variant of Jude 4 mentioned by Martin, is reflected in later manuscripts and not in the earlier and better witnesses. Thus Jude 4 demonstrates the Master is God the Son. And since the same idea, denying the Master is also expressed in 2 Peter 2:1, the conclusion must be that the Master refers to Christ.
    3) Does every other "appearance of despotes in the N.T. refer to human masters or God the Father? Nope, 2 Peter 2:1 and Jude 1:4 total more than one. My count is 4 usages referring to humans, 4 usages referring to God the Father, and 2 usages referring to God the Son.

    This person who likes to question of the qualifications of others, is questioning that Christ is presented as God in Jude 1:4
    I kid you not.
     
    #41 Van, Apr 24, 2023
  2. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Martin I agree that for Paul the cross was central but as he pointed out if Christ had not risen then what value would His death have been.
    1Co_15:17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.
     
    #42 Silverhair, Apr 24, 2023
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Think about the thief taken to paradise on the day Christ died. Had the bodily resurrection of Jesus occurred? Nope, So what is all this malarkey about the resurrection being necessary to provide forgiveness? The resurrection provides evidence that Christ's promises were valid, thus our faith is His promises has value and is not worthless.

    Redemption occurs when God transfers an individual's spirit into Christ's spiritual body where the individual undergoes the washing of regeneration, and arises in Christ a new creation, born of God.
     
    #43 Van, Apr 25, 2023
  4. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    OK so you don't agree with scripture. Then why would the Holy Spirit have put it
    1Co_15:17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.
    in the bible if it was not important?
     
    #44 Silverhair, Apr 25, 2023
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I do not agree with your "salvation can be lost" view of scripture.
    The resurrection provides evidence that Christ's promises were valid, thus our faith is His promises has value and is not worthless.
    Did you address how the thief entered paradise before Christ's bodily resurrection? Nope.
     
    #45 Van, Apr 25, 2023
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    In 1 Corinthians 6:20 and 1 Corinthians 7:23 deliverance into salvation was purchased. Ditto for Revelation 14:3-4. However, in 2 Peter 2:1, purchasing the means of salvation for all mankind, those to be saved and those never to be saved is in view.

    Thus bought can refer to an individual's deliverance into salvation or providing the meaning of salvation for humanity by making the ransom payment.
     
    #46 Van, Apr 25, 2023
  7. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Where does God tell us that Jesus purchased "the means to" salvation or deliverance "into" salvation?
    There is no text in all of scripture that says such a thing.
    Certainly 2 Peter 2:1 does not say such a thing.

    But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

    Van, you have created a gospel and salvation not taught by God in the Bible. The phraseology you choose, in what I quote directly from you, is found nowhere in the Bible.

    Honestly, you make Jesus and His atonement secondary to a human response.
    You teach that Jesus opens the door, but his work is empty of any value if a human does not walk through the door. Your theology is just appalling to me. It is baseless in all of Scripture.
     
    #47 AustinC, Apr 25, 2023
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    1 John 2:2
     
    #48 Van, Apr 29, 2023
  9. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    Nope. The text says nothing about Jesus purchasing the means of salvation.
     
    #49 RipponRedeaux, Apr 29, 2023
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another "taint so" post offering no alternative.

    1 John 2:2 NASB footnote: means of reconciliation

    1 John 2:2 (NASB as footnoted)
    and He Himself is the means of reconciliation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
     
    #50 Van, Apr 29, 2023
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