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Who can seek God?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Jun 13, 2023.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Romans 3:11 makes this statement and some read this as saying "there is none who seeks for God at any time." However the intended contextual message might be "there is none who seeks for God all the time, or when they are going against God by sinning."

    Contextually, since Paul is saying "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23) our third choice is most likely the inspired message.

    Romans 9:16 tells us salvation does not depend on the person who "wills." Thus those needing salvation, those dead in their sin, can will to be saved, thus they are indeed "seeking God" as a refuge some of the time.

    Additionally, we see Jews seeking God through works rather than faith, and Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness by works, obtained righteousness on the basis of faith. Romans 9:30.
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Seeking God, even the God of the OT, does not require being drawn to Christ. But obtaining salvation, eternal life with God, does require not only being drawn (attracted) by the Father, but having their faith, as worthless as it may be, credited by God as righteousness. Can anyone seek God if God has not revealed Himself? Nope.

    Can the lost be led to Christ through understanding their sinfulness and need of a Savior by the Law found in the Old Testament? Yes, Galatians 3:24-25
     
  3. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    What you wrote above is absolute balderdash. You continually wrest the scriptures Van.
    "There is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God." That's what the Bible says. Believe it.

    But then you try to chisel away at God's divine Word with your twisted 'interpretation.'

    Leave the Scripture alone. Do not tamper with it.
     
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  4. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    Those dead in sin cannot will to be saved. That is in complete contradiction to 9:16 which says :
    "It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God's mercy." (NIV)

    God mercies those whom he desires to have mercy. See Ro. 9:15. Throw your "some of the time" garbage in a wastebasket near you.
     
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  5. RipponRedeaux

    RipponRedeaux Well-Known Member

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    There you go again butchering God's Word. The drawing is not mere attraction. That's absurd. The Father compels certain ones to come to Christ. The Greek word translated as 'drawn' is elko which Albrecht Oepke says "To compel by irresistible superiority." They are unable to come on their own.
    That word is used in Acts 16:19 : "...they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them into the marketplace..."
    It's used again in James 2:6 : "...Are they not dragging you into court?
     
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  6. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    helko to draw, compel
    helko [helkuo] to draw, compel G1670
    The basic meaning is “to draw,” “tug,” of, in the case of persons, “compel.” It may be used for “to draw” to a place by magic, for demons being “drawn” to animal life, or for the inner influencing of the will (Plato). The Semitic world has the concept of an irresistible drawing to God (cf. 1Sa_10:5; 1Sa_19:19 ff.; Jer_29:26; Hos_9:7). In the OT helkein denotes a powerful impulse, as in Son 1:4, which is obscure but expresses the force of love. This is the point in the two important passages in John 6:44; John 12:32. There is no thought here of force or magic. The term figuratively expresses the supernatural power of the love of God of Christ which goes out to all (John 12:32) but without which no one can come (John 6:44). The apparent contradiction shows that both the election and the universality of grace must be taken seriously; the compulsion is not automatic.
    A. OEPKE, II, 503–04 Theological Dictionary of the New Testament {TDNT}
     
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I am not the one adding "no one seeks after God at any time" to the text.
    Once again I am charged with the malfeasance of the other side. :)
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Read Romans 9:16 and tell me God was wrong when he referred to those who will as being those needing salvation. If the lost could not will or "run" as your bogus doctrine claims, God would not have addressed the lack of results by that action alone.
     
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Why are you not addressing John 6:44 and John 12:32, were the word is used metaphorically to indicate attraction?
    Once again we see false doctrine build on the foundation of ambiguous text. Go figure
     
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