1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Is Pelagianism within Orthodox Christianity?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Piper, Jul 14, 2023.

  1. Piper

    Piper Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    905
    Likes Received:
    148
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Pelagianism is a Christian theological position that holds that the original sin did not taint human nature and that humans by divine grace have free will to achieve human perfection. -Wikipedia. Good definition.

    Another definition
    Pelagianism, also called Pelagian heresy, a 5th-century Christian heresy taught by Pelagius and his followers that stressed the essential goodness of human nature and the freedom of the human will. Pelagius was concerned about the slack moral standards among Christians, and he hoped to improve their conduct by his teachings. - Brittannica.com

    Another
    Pelagianism is the unbiblical teaching that Adam’s sin did not affect future generations of humanity. According to Pelagianism, Adam’s sin was solely his own, and Adam’s descendants did not inherit a sinful nature passed down to them. God creates every human soul directly, and therefore every human soul starts out in innocence, free from sin. We are not basically bad, says the Pelagian heresy; we are basically good. Gotquestions.org

    It is represented by those who believe that man has the inherent goodness and ability to make good choices and do right.

    Is that part of Traditional Christianity?
     
  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,745
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    First defintion = Bad definition, one only those rewriting history would employ.
    The doctrine of original sin insists that the root of human sinfulness comes from Adam. Through the fall of Adam ..., all people inherited an inclination toward sin (the sinful nature). Pelagius and his immediate followers upheld the belief that Adam’s sin belonged to him alone and did not infect the rest of humanity.​

    Note that Calvinism equates denial of being predisposed to sin due to God's imposition of the consequences of Adam's sin upon humanity, with denial of total spiritual inability. Hogwash.

    Calvinists use the term and Semi-Pelagianism, to claim those who deny the "total spiritual inability" of the lost are not part of "Traditional Christianity."
     
  3. Piper

    Piper Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    905
    Likes Received:
    148
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So, is Pelagianism part of Traditional Christianity?
     
  4. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    3,643
    Likes Received:
    642
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It is NOT an orthodox position
     
  5. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    20,511
    Likes Received:
    3,047
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Calvinism lives inside your head. The OP is about Pelagianism.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Funny Funny x 2
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,745
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If you were unaware that Calvinist advocates use Pelaganism and semi Pelaganism to "name call" opponents, then you have been enlightened.

    First defintion = Bad definition, one only those rewriting history would employ.

    The doctrine of original sin insists that the root of human sinfulness comes from Adam. Through the fall of Adam ..., all people inherited an inclination toward sin (the sinful nature). Pelagius and his immediate followers upheld the belief that Adam’s sin belonged to him alone and did not infect the rest of humanity.
    Note that Calvinism equates denial of being predisposed to sin due to God's imposition of the consequences of Adam's sin upon humanity, with denial of total spiritual inability. Hogwash.

    Calvinists use the term and Semi-Pelagianism, to claim those who deny the "total spiritual inability" of the lost are not part of "Traditional Christianity."
     
  7. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    20,511
    Likes Received:
    3,047
    Faith:
    Baptist
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,745
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The OP is not about Pelaganism, but about ascribing heresy to non heretics.

    Calvinists use the term and Semi-Pelagianism, to claim those who deny the "total spiritual inability" of the lost are not part of "Traditional Christianity."

    And of course the claim is hogwash
     
  9. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    13,417
    Likes Received:
    1,769
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It is an interesting question. It is not supported by scripture, which clearly teaches Adam’s sin affects us all.

    Can a person believe Pelagius was correct, and be saved?

    I think it’s possible, since it doesn’t really deny, based on what you posted, the essentials of Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

    peace to you
     
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,745
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    "I am convinced that the identification of Arminianism with semi-Pelagianism has become a major polemical tool in the current resurgence of Calvinism among especially American (now spreading to other counties) young Christians. In other words, Sproul and other influential Calvinists present only two options: Calvinism and semi-Pelagianism and label the latter a denial of salvation by grace alone." (Olson)
     
  11. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    20,511
    Likes Received:
    3,047
    Faith:
    Baptist
    ???

    Is Pelagianism within Orthodox Christianity?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  12. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    20,511
    Likes Received:
    3,047
    Faith:
    Baptist
     
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    17,848
    Likes Received:
    1,365
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Mankind's sinful nature is a result of Adam's sin and Eve being deceived. It is caused by mankind aquiring God's knowledge of good and evil. Genesis 3:22.
     
  14. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    7,270
    Likes Received:
    559
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Pelagianism like all of the “ism’s” have good points and bad.

    The good

    1] humans by divine grace have free will but he took it to far when he claimed we could achieve human perfection.

    2] stressed the essential goodness of human nature. This is not saying that man does not sin but rather that man in general will strive for the good. Humanity could not survive without it.

    3] Pelagius was concerned about the slack moral standards among Christians, as we all should be.


    The bad

    1] achieve human perfection. Man is to proud and self-centered to achieve that.

    2] Adam’s descendants did not inherit a sinful nature passed down to them. We all sin so that point is self-evidently wrong. We inherited Adams sin nature not his sin.

    3] every human soul starts out in innocence, free from sin. Just as those before the law were not judged for their sin but still died so with the those that can not discern right from wrong, while not innocent are not judged for there sin.


    And here I have to agree with @canadyjd to a point. While Pelagius had some good points I think that the bad points could cause one to trust in their own goodness for their salvation. Although this would not preclude the ability of them to hear and trust in the gospel message. The question is whether they would think they needed to or not?
     
  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,745
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The OP is not about Pelaganism, but about ascribing heresy to non heretics.

    Calvinists use the term and Semi-Pelagianism, to claim those who deny the "total spiritual inability" of the lost are not part of "Traditional Christianity."

    And of course the claim is hogwash

    "I am convinced that the identification of Arminianism with semi-Pelagianism has become a major polemical tool in the current resurgence of Calvinism among especially American (now spreading to other counties) young Christians. In other words, Sproul and other influential Calvinists present only two options: Calvinism and semi-Pelagianism and label the latter a denial of salvation by grace alone." (Olson)​
     
    #15 Van, Jul 15, 2023
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2023
  16. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2017
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    1,465
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Pelagianism, as defined by the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches, is neither Catholic nor Orthodox, again by their definition and determination.

    However, many Christians would still agree with certain concerns expressed, e.g., the practice of infant baptism and lax, sinful lifestyles within the church.

    The fact is that many times our concerns lead us to overstate our case. This human tendency makes its appearance on all sides of an issue, and in a host of sermons.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    3,643
    Likes Received:
    642
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Pelagianism has been condemned as heresy at Church Councils

    it’s not just a Calvinist thing

    Pelagius was a moralist

    he denied grace like several on here
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2017
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    1,465
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And there it is. :Wink
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,745
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, indeed!!
    The OP is not about Pelaganism, but about ascribing heresy to non heretics.

    Calvinists use the term and Semi-Pelagianism, to claim those who deny the "total spiritual inability" of the lost are not part of "Traditional Christianity."

    And of course the claim is hogwash

    "I am convinced that the identification of Arminianism with semi-Pelagianism has become a major polemical tool in the current resurgence of Calvinism among especially American (now spreading to other counties) young Christians. In other words, Sproul and other influential Calvinists present only two options: Calvinism and semi-Pelagianism and label the latter a denial of salvation by grace alone." (Olson)​
     
  20. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    3,643
    Likes Received:
    642
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It has nothing to do w a resurgence
     
Loading...