Featured A question for Cavinist

The immaturity characteristic comes from believing there is a debate, at all.

The Bible teaches Total Depravity in almost every chapter and The Doctrines of Grace in every chapter, cover to cover. They reveal man and God as they are and not how man thinks they might be.

The denial of Total Depravity is a surefire way to A.) not understand how God saves people through His Son, exclusively, and not with any help from lost sinners and, therefore, understand precious little of the content of the Bible and/or B.) be lost, because the person's soul has not reached the end of itself, to be lost, and have an indispensable need for Christ alone.

Mankind is not the author of any part of their salvation, in any way, at any time.

To say otherwise is simply non-Biblical, A to Z, and a philosophy painted onto the pages of the proper interpretation of scripture, yes..

Salvation in Jesus is not a philosophy.

Jesus is the Savior.

Because God is God and man is not.

 

I love these previous Calvinist that are converted to Prims, it fires them up... Btw I never was one!... Brother Glen

 

I see Calvinism and Arminianism as exact opposites, which leaves me without any middle ground for someone to say they are in.

The quote looks like it assumes a lost sinner has no ability or involvement in their salvation.

Looks like it.

 

Is salvation more than “fire insurance” to avoid hell?

• If NO, then bad teaching does not matter.
• If YES, then the loss or corruption of “good works which God has prepared in advance for us to walk in” does matter. [Ephesians 2:10]

 

Because…

1. God has commanded us to contend for the Faith once delivered.

2. God has commanded love all people

You do not show love for people by ignoring false teaching.

You are correct that the elect will all be saved.

You are wrong that it doesn’t matter what people believe.

peace to you

 

I was raised Roman Catholic and there was a time in my life that Protestants (all Protestants no matter what they believed) NEVER mattered to me… that’s up until the HS opened my eyes and then I gained Devine knowledge… ah yes, I see it now. I hope the same experiences happen for you.

 

Was he? I got the distinct impression he was a name it and claim it Baptist.

 

Forgive me, I have not read all the posts between your opening question post and now. So if I am redundant, sorry.

Your question, rephrased based on my understanding is: Why all the indignation concerning non-Calvinist views, if those saved will not be affected? Why rail against supposed false teachers if false teaching does not matter at all?

If you flip your question, why not be tolerant of false teachers because they will not impact the salvation of anyone, you run up against the command to not be tolerant of false teachers.

So once again, we have God commanding believers to act in futile ways, preaching to the lost who are unable to understand the gospel, and being intolerant of false teachers who are unable to affect anyone's salvation.

On the other hand, we could believe Romans 2:5-8, which indicates the lost actually impact in some way with their deeds, the outcome of their lives.

 

...think he was referring to me

 

The difference it makes is that you and I do not know who the elect are. Or as an Arminian would word it, you do know know who will and who will not believe, God uses means to accomplish his ends, and he commands us to preach the gospel to the unbelieving world. That is a summation of a much more in-depth discussion. Obedience to God calls for sharing the gospel and exposing false teachers. It is found all through the New Testament. But I think that even an Arminian or a believer in this "Non Penal-Substitution" would agree with those points.

 

I was but he can clear the air but I also believe in TULIP but our TULIP as far as Eternal Salvation is concerned only allows the Holy Spirit alone who is the regenerator... My KJV is an evangelistic tool that feeds the sheep that God makes alone... The poster ask why does it matter?... It matters, if it is The Sovereignty Of God... God's Sovereignty as His "absolute right to do all things according to his own good pleasure... The problem I see since I've been here is the interpretation of it... It seems to me that man is more sovereign that God... Was God obligated to save anyone?... Many don't understand God's love mercy and grace... And here we are warring against each other... Let God be true and everyman a liar!... Brother Glen

 

The problem Tyndale is that we know everyone doesn't get saved. So if you try to think it through, which maybe we shouldn't really do, you have to come up with one of several conclusions.
a. Either God is requiring something and waiting to see how we respond.
b. God is choosing some and not others.
The problem with choosing "a" is that the charge of there being merit in making the right choice is a valid charge and man does have control over his own salvation. The problem with "b" is that you now have to make a further statement that questions God's motivation. He could save everyone but he doesn't want to and by the process of elimination - he wants to send some people to hell.

The argument that the fact that we are all deserving of damnation starting out does not satisfy some people's concern that you still have God as the sole determiner of who goes to hell. The problem with leaving it up to our choice is that we don't have equality in intelligence, access to the gospel, difficulties in life and so on. So "a" isn't really fair either.

The other problem is that the scholastic Calvinists, the guys coming up with the deterministic explanations and the sharp statements about God's absolute sovereignty don't preach that way. And in some cases it's even the same people. They preach like you need to make a decision. They preach against living a loose life and they preach against the dangers of falling away. And, some who say it is up to you also say that if you feel any calling of the Spirit on your life you better respond because although it is up to you - if the Holy Spirit stops calling you will never choose to come.

 

Here is the answer in better logic than I could ever construct.

What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

 

Well, you're right. We probably shouldn't ask "a" or "b". There will not be a satisfactory answer arrived at if you try to think it through with a human mind. My only point was that "b" is equally an untenable as "a". Because we all, when we read chapter 9 of Romans tend to assume that we are Jacobs, not Esaus. I guess except for poor old William Cowper, who decided he was not elect. So then you end up back where you have John Owen saying that the only warrant you have to think you are elect is that you believe. So....is he saying you should believe? Does that mean you can? And we're back where we started.

 

[As nonCalvinist] My understanding of the Calvinist uncondition election, it is based on, God's sovereign choosing, before the foundation of the world. Ephesians 1:4.

 

At least I can discuss this with you without you saying I believe a false gospel. I appreciate your spirit.

It is the central question I have struggled with for years. I have had to go with what I thought the Bible presented as the best supported view and stand there. But I still question my own views occasionally.