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Featured Bought then Redeemed

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Aug 30, 2023.

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  1. taisto

    taisto Well-Known Member

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    Does 2 Peter 2:1 Deny Effectual Atonement

    As John Owen points out in The Death of Death in the Death of Christ, the word used to say the false teachers were "bought" can be used to denote any kind of deliverance, and so does not necessarily indicate that they had been purchased by the blood of Christ. Based on the context, it may be best to understand the statement that the false teachers had been "bought" not as a reference to the death of Christ, but a reference to some other act of deliverance--such as deliverance by God's goodness from the idolatry of the world. Notice how later on Peter refers to the false teachers as having had a form of "deliverance" in that they "escape[ed] the pollution of the world" by the knowledge of the gospel (v. 20). This verse is not referring to salvation, but outward reformation with no ultimate inward reality.
     
    #81 taisto, Sep 8, 2023
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Two things. What is called effectual atonement is not true. John Owen denied Christ in dying for His sheep died for all mankind.
     
    #82 37818, Sep 8, 2023
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    @taisto,
    In 2 Peter 2:1 who do you think bought them? How were they bought? What was their distribution they brought on them selves? Give Scripture for your Biblical claim.

    2 Peter 2:1, ". . . But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. . . ."

    Primary cross reference.

    Jude 1:4, ". . . For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. . . ."
     
    #83 37818, Sep 8, 2023
  4. taisto

    taisto Well-Known Member

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    I provided my answer in the link. There you can see that the term "bought" is not referring to redemption and ransom.
     
    #84 taisto, Sep 8, 2023
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another off topic post addressing me.
    1) Truth has no basis in popular opinion, as everyone can be wrong. Thus an argument based on the observation others disagree is a fallacious argument.

    2) Are all people bought also redeemed? Nope 2 Peter 2:1.

    3) The link falsely claims bought carries with it the idea of deliverance. Nonsense.

    4) Verse 20 makes clear they escaped the pollution or defilement of the world BY KNOWLEDGE OF THE LORD." Hearing and understanding the gospel of Christ does not result in deliverance, as those in view had turned back to falsehood.

    5) No one claims being bought resulted in salvation, only that Christ had purchased the means of reconciliation for those heading for destruction.

    6) Deuteronomy 32:6 says the Father created the people of Israel. Purchased or bought is a mistranslation.

    7) The argument from Exodus 15:16, makes the erroneous argument that the same meaning of a word applies to verses where differing meanings are used. Fiddlesticks.

    8) Lastly the link makes the argument that because of the ambiguity of the verse, in the minds of the opponents, the verse can not be used to support its actual message, Christ bought those heading for destruction. This is simply a fallacious argument from personal incredulity.
     
    #85 Van, Sep 9, 2023
  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    No. Because one would also have to deny Jesus Christ is "the Lord" being denied in 2 Peter 2:1 as per Jude 1:4. [Acts of the Apostles 4:24. Revelation 6:10.]
     
    #86 37818, Sep 9, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2023
  7. taisto

    taisto Well-Known Member

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    #87 taisto, Sep 9, 2023
  8. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Taisto do you know how to PM and read PM's to you?
     
    #88 Salty, Sep 9, 2023
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