1 John 3: 17

On another thread Tyndale gave the verse I John 3:17
But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

ccc It is not my practice to give money to beggers.
What I will do is offer to take the to McDonalds for a meal, or offer to go with them to the Rescue mission, ect.
Do many of those begging for money want to use it for drugs - yes - I know that doesnt mean everyone. But I will offer the a meal.
In addition - its not just the money - rather its the time I could spend with someone.

and let the discussion begin

Salty said:

On another thread Tyndale gave the verse I John 3:17
But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

ccc It is not my practice to give money to beggers.
What I will do is offer to take the to McDonalds for a meal, or offer to go with them to the Rescue mission, ect.
Do many of those begging for money want to use it for drugs - yes - I know that doesnt mean everyone. But I will offer the a meal.
In addition - its not just the money - rather its the time I could spend with someone.

and let the discussion begin

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I agree and let me relate a story... In the PB Church I grew up in and was a member, after the sermon a group of us men with our pastor was gathered in front of the church waiting for lunch... A young woman approached and in an urgent tone said I need to talk to your pastor... Our pastor introduced himself and said and how can I help you?... She said sir my children are hungry and I need money to buy food... He said well I won't give you any money and neither will any of these other brethren but I tell what we will do... We are fixing to have lunch and there is plenty for everyone... Go get your children and you and your children can go to the head of the line and fill your plates... She didn't like the answer and never came back... Later on as we were sitting at the table, someone said to the pastor, what happened to the woman and her children?... The pastor said, seems to me they weren't hungry... Brother Glen

When I was driving taxi - a fella came up and asked for money because he was hungary.
About that time- I had a call from dispatch - to pick someone up.
So I told the guy - come in with me - and I will buy you burger
He came in and got it.

I really wanted to stay and chitchat with him - but I had that pick-up to attend to.

Salty said:

When I was driving taxi - a fella came up and asked for money because he was hungary.
About that time- I had a call from dispatch - to pick someone up.
So I told the guy - come in with me - and I will buy you burger
He came in and got it.

I really wanted to stay and chitchat with him - but I had that pick-up to attend to.

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My wife's Mother long to be with the Lord... Say she was going shopping for groceries at the store... She was approach by a man who wanted money to eat... She said I won't give you any money but after I finish shopping I will buy you a meal... When she came out of the store, he was gone... Brother Glen

Salty said:

On another thread Tyndale gave the verse I John 3:17
But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

ccc It is not my practice to give money to beggers.
What I will do is offer to take the to McDonalds for a meal, or offer to go with them to the Rescue mission, ect.
Do many of those begging for money want to use it for drugs - yes - I know that doesnt mean everyone. But I will offer the a meal.
In addition - its not just the money - rather its the time I could spend with someone.

and let the discussion begin

Click to expand...

We (my wife and I) put together care packages with items like granola bars, soap, and toothpaste/brush as well as directions to the local shelter to get food. We reserve our money to go to the shelter and other NGOs who provide assistance.

In fact - one morning when I was subbing for the local talk show host, my guest was the Rescue Mission director - he pleaded for people NOT to give money to the beggars., as the Rescue Mission has the means to help people!

Salty said:

and let the discussion begin

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3:17 "But whoever has the world's goods and sees his brother in need" These are PRESENT SUBJUNCTIVE VERBS. Laying down one's life in 1 John 3:16 is now put into the realm of potential, practical help of one's brother. These verses sound so much like James (cf. James 2:15,16).

"and closes his heart against him"

This is an AORIST ACTIVE SUBJUNCTIVE. The term heart is literally "bowels," a Hebrew idiom for the emotions. Again, our actions reveal our Father.

Special Topic: Heart

▣ "the love of God" Again is this an OBJECTIVE or SUBJUNCTIVE GENITIVE or purposeful ambiguity?

love for God
God's love for us
both
Number 3 fits John's writings!

3:18 "let us not love with word or with tongue" Actions speak louder than words (cf. Matt. 7:24; James 1:22-25; 2:14-26).

"but in deed and truth"

The term "truth" is surprising. One would expect a synonym of "deed," like "action." The term seems to mean genuine (NJB) or true (TEV), like the use of "message" in 1 John 1:5 and 3:11, which emphasizes both doctrine and lifestyle, so too, "truth." The deed and motives must both be motivated by self-giving love (God's love) and not just be showy deeds that feed the ego of the provider or giver.


25:35-39 Our good deeds and lifestyle love reveal and confirm our initial faith commitment to Jesus Christ (cf. Eph. 2:8-9,10; 2 Tim. 2:21; 3:17; Titus 3:1; Heb. 13:21). Faith without works is dead (cf. James 2:14-26). These good works to others are related to the good works of Jesus Himself (cf. Isa. 58:6-7). Believers continue His ministry (cf. Titus 2:14).

25:40 "to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them" The term "brother" here must refer to a neighbor. It is believers caring for humans made in God's image that is emphasized.

The close relationship between Jesus and His followers can be seen in Acts 9:4, 22:7, 26:14, and 1 Cor. 8:12. To hurt one is to hurt both; to bless one is to bless both. Jesus wants believers to live in such a way that His task on earth continues (i.e., help fallen humans find fellowship with their Creator, cf. Matt. 20:28; Mark 10:45; 1 John 3:16).

And this INCLUDES the beggars, poor and needy.
Bible Lessons International

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Let the discussion begin-

Johann!@# said:

3:17 "But whoever has the world's goods and sees his brother in need"...

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Yes, we are to help those in NEED - not GREED!

Salty said:

Yes, we are to help those in NEED - not GREED!

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How do you discern greed from need?
I was in a ministry called the Ark in Durban-same as David Wilkerson-are we not to go into the highways and byways-the outer peripheral areas-to help and assist the poor and needy?
To make disciples -them included?

Let the discussion continue.

Salty said:

ccc It is not my practice to give money to beggers.
What I will do is offer to take the to McDonalds for a meal, or offer to go with them to the Rescue mission, ect.
Do many of those begging for money want to use it for drugs - yes - I know that doesnt mean everyone. But I will offer the a meal.
In addition - its not just the money - rather its the time I could spend with someone.

and let the discussion begin

Click to expand...

1 John 3:16-17 [NKJV]

Is the homeless man begging (possibly for alcohol or drugs), really a “brother”? I am not questioning if a “neighbor” should be treated with love (Mark 12:31), but merely whether 1 John 3:17 applies to the case mentioned in the OP. CHRISTIANS are our brothers, the WORLD is not our brothers.

Sometimes I buy food and other times I give money. Sometimes it's both.

I don't know the reality of why some of these people need it. I don't care. When the Lord prompts, I do it.

atpollard said:

1 John 3:16-17 [NKJV]

By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down [our] lives for the brethren. But whoever has this world's goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?​

Is the homeless man begging (possibly for alcohol or drugs), really a “brother”? I am not questioning if a “neighbor” should be treated with love (Mark 12:31), but merely whether 1 John 3:17 applies to the case mentioned in the OP. CHRISTIANS are our brothers, the WORLD is not our brothers.

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A beggar is MY brother and neighbor.
Johann.

Johann!@# said:

A beggar is MY brother and neighbor.
Johann.

Click to expand...

So how can you help him the best?
A) just keep giving him money
B) Give him assistance in Bootstraps?

Johann!@# said:

A beggar is MY brother and neighbor.
Johann.

Click to expand...

Respectfully, the Church (body of believers) and the World (those rejecting Christ) are not interchangeable in scripture. We have obligations to each, but those obligations are not the same.

• Do you treat your son like the man that robbed your car and the man that robbed your car like your son?
• Are they really treated identical?
• Does God even command that they be treated identical?
• Is it even right to treat them identical?

atpollard said:

Respectfully, the Church (body of believers) and the World (those rejecting Christ) are not interchangeable in scripture. We have obligations to each, but those obligations are not the same.

• Do you treat your son like the man that robbed your car and the man that robbed your car like your son?
• Are they really treated identical?
• Does God even command that they be treated identical?
• Is it even right to treat them identical?

Click to expand...

Mat 22:36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
Mat 22:37 Jesus said to him, 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like it: 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Do I or anyone do this perfectly, NO. But we are to aim for that goal.

Mat 25:34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;
Mat 25:36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.'
Mat 25:37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink?
Mat 25:38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You?
Mat 25:39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
Mat 25:40 And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.

atpollard said:

Respectfully, the Church (body of believers) and the World (those rejecting Christ) are not interchangeable in scripture. We have obligations to each, but those obligations are not the same.

• Do you treat your son like the man that robbed your car and the man that robbed your car like your son?
• Are they really treated identical?
• Does God even command that they be treated identical?
• Is it even right to treat them identical?

Click to expand...

Mat 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Mat 25:32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
Mat 25:33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Mat 25:35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
Mat 25:36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’
Mat 25:37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
Mat 25:38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
Mat 25:39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’
Mat 25:40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’
Mat 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Mat 25:42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’
Mat 25:44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’
Mat 25:45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’
Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”


25:35-39 Our good deeds and lifestyle love reveal and confirm our initial faith commitment to Jesus Christ (cf. Eph. 2:8-9,10; 2 Tim. 2:21; 3:17; Titus 3:1; Heb. 13:21). Faith without works is dead (cf. James 2:14-26). These good works to others are related to the good works of Jesus Himself (cf. Isa. 58:6-7). Believers continue His ministry (cf. Titus 2:14).

25:40 "to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them" The term "brother" here must refer to a neighbor. It is believers caring for humans made in God's image that is emphasized. The close relationship between Jesus and His followers can be seen in Acts 9:4, 22:7, 26:14, and 1 Cor. 8:12. To hurt one is to hurt both; to bless one is to bless both. Jesus wants believers to live in such a way that His task on earth continues (i.e., help fallen humans find fellowship with their Creator, cf. Gen. 3:15; Isaiah 53; Matt. 20:28; Mark 10:45; 1 John 3:16).

÷MATTHEW 25:41-46

NASB (UPDATED) TEXT: MATTHEW 25:41-46
41"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'44Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'45Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'46These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me'" Hell's worst aspect is the separation from fellowship with God (cf. Matt. 7:23; Luke 13:27). God does not send humans to hell; they send themselves by their lifestyle choices.

"accursed ones" This is a PERFECT PASSIVE PARTICIPLE. This grammatical construction was used several times in this context. It speaks of that which happened in the past and the results of which have continued into the present. The action is done by an outside agent. These people's rejection of God and His Christ in the past has been consummated into permanent blindness and rejection! This rejection revealed itself in lack of love for other human beings (Matt. 25:42-43).

Salty said:

So how can you help him the best?
A) just keep giving him money
B) Give him assistance in Bootstraps?

Click to expand...

Do you know David Wilkerson? His ministry?
I was a pastor in the Ark in Durban-same as David's

Let me give you a little illustration-

A down and out family sitting on a corner-selling dog blankets to make ends meet-two Churches nearby-and are aware of the plight of this family for over 15 years-and not ONCE did the members of the two Churches even greet them-yet the Muslim Community was more merciful and went out of their way in practical assistance to THIS family-and so a Catholic Church-with monthly food parcels-you think the two "Churches" were correct-after all-it's not their problem and the family don't belong to "their Churches"

It should be interesting how you would answer.

Silverhair said:

Mat 22:36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?"
Mat 22:37 Jesus said to him, 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like it: 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Do I or anyone do this perfectly, NO. But we are to aim for that goal.

Mat 25:34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;
Mat 25:36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.'
Mat 25:37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink?
Mat 25:38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You?
Mat 25:39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
Mat 25:40 And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.

Click to expand...

Yes-and the Church is NOT a building-just thought I'd throw this one out.
In the East it was a whole lot different.
Johann.

atpollard said:

Respectfully, the Church (body of believers) and the World (those rejecting Christ) are not interchangeable in scripture. We have obligations to each, but those obligations are not the same.

Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree with you-big time.
Johann.