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Featured Satan Murdered Jesus - The Scripture and Theology

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Arthur King, Oct 18, 2023.

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  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Acts 2:22–24 Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know— this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.



    Who nailed Christ to the Cross and put Him to death?

    The Jews that Christ said sought to kill Him because they were doing the work of their father the Devil.

    How did they put Him to death? By the hands of godless men (the Romans).

    But this was in accordance to God's predetermined plan and foreknowledge.

    And Christ lay down His life willingly, those who murdered Him did not take His life from Him as He gave it freely ...as a lamb led to the slaughter.
     
  2. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

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    When Jesus says “no one takes my life” he means no one is superseding my willingness. I am voluntarily giving myself to be murdered.
     
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  3. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    ???

    1 Thess 2
    14 For ye, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God which are in Judaea in Christ Jesus: for ye also suffered the same things of your own countrymen, even as they did of the Jews;
    15 who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove out us, and pleased not God, and are contrary to all men;

    Acts 2:
    …. they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance…Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazarethye by the hand of lawless men did crucify and slay…God hath made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom ye crucified. Acts 2:4,22,23,36

    Acts 3:
    …Peter… answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel… his Servant Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied before the face of Pilate, when he had determined to release him… ye denied the Holy and Righteous One, and asked for a murderer to be granted unto you, and killed the Prince of life… whereof we are witnesses. Acts 3:12-15

    Acts 4:
    …Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders… be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified… Acts 4:8,10

    Acts 5:
    … they set them before the council…. ye have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and intend to bring this man`s blood upon us…. Peter and the apostles answered and said… The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew, hanging him on a tree… we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit Acts 5:27,28,29,30,32

    Acts 6 & 7:
    …there arose certain of them that were of the synagogue called the synagogue of the Libertines, and of the Cyrenians, and of the Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and Asia, disputing with Stephen. And they were not able to withstand the wisdom and the Spirit by which he spake….Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Spirit: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets did not your fathers persecute? and they killed them that showed before of the coming of the Righteous One; of whom ye have now become betrayers and murderers; Acts 6:9,10; Acts 7:51,52

    Acts 10:
    …we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the country of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom also they slew, hanging him on a tree…. Him God raised up the third day, and gave him to be made manifest, not to all the people, but unto witnesses that were chosen before of God, even to us, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. And he charged us to preach unto the people, and to testify that this is he who is ordained of God to be the Judge of the living and the dead. Acts 10: 39-42

    Acts 13:
    …Paul stood up, and beckoning with the hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, hearken…they that dwell in Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath, fulfilled them by condemning him. And though they found no cause of death in him, yet asked they of Pilate that he should be slain. And when they had fulfilled all things that were written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a tomb. But God raised him from the dead: and he was seen for many days of them that came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are now his witnesses unto the people. Acts 13:16,27-31
     
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  4. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Let us consider Acts of the Apostles 5:30:
    Act 5:30 NET
    The God of our forefathers raised up Jesus, whom you seized and killed by hanging him on a tree.
    Act 5:30 NASB
    “The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you put to death by hanging Him on wood.
    Act 5:30 NKJV
    The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree.

    The word translated as "murdered" and "killed" and "put to death" is "diacheirizō" (G1315) which actually means "to lay hands on" (with the objective of to do harm). In Acts of the Apostles 26:21 the idea is Jews were trying to kill Paul.
     
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    @Van

    Do you believe that the Jews out Jesus to death?

    I'm talking about Acts 2:23 (NASB95): you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.

    That verse can't simply mean "you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and laid hands on Him".


    You are trying so hard to deny Scripture, to twist it into your theory. But it is impossible.

    Like I said before, given your history on this board we all know that you will not be persuaded by Scripture.
     
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Lets
    Do you believe you are presenting against the person arguments non-stop?
     
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I believe you will reject the fact that the Jewish leaders, doing the work of their father the Devil, nailed Jesus to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death even if God Himself told you that was true because He has.
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Acts 2:24, which says Jesus was in the "birth pains" of death. This pain and suffering were brought on by wicked people and Satan. No question, they were trying to kill Him, and their unjustified actions were murderous. But it was impossible for Him to be held in "death's power."

    Acts of the Apostles 3:15
    but put to death the Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, of whom we are witnesses.

    Here we see the crux of the matter, people took actions against Christ's body that would kill a person, and were intended to kill Jesus. But no one took His life.
     
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    You seem unable to grasp reality, as you are posting as if I denied wicked people and Satan did to Jesus what would have taken the life of anyone other than our "God incarnate."
     
  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No. I am saying that you reject that the children of their father the Devil put Jesus to death by the hands of godless men.

    It is important because the remainder of the passage in Acts 2 depends on understanding that Christ willingly lay down His life to be killed by those doing the work of Satan.
     
  11. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    Scripture defines physical death as the separation of the spirit from the body (James 2:26). Neither wicked men nor Satan nor any other created entities could or did do anything that brought about that separation. Jesus voluntarily died when He commended and gave up His spirit into His Father's hands:

    Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

    Regardless of whatever any of the other passages say, none of them changes this truth about the actual time and reason for the death of Jesus.
     
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  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Yey the Bible says specifically that the Jews killed Christ using godless men. Go figure.

    Personally, I believe all of those passages are true. I think people start denying that Christ gave up His own life or that Jesus was unjustly murdered by men doing the work of the Devil because they can't reconcile the two. They miss the forest for the trees.
     
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Note: this is why I like discussing these topics.

    I knew from a child that the Jewish leaders gave Christ up to the Romans to be killed.

    But until this thread I had missed that Peter placed the murder of Christ on those leaders who Jesus said sought to kill Him because their father was the Devil and they were doing his work.

    I had missed that Peter said they murdered Christ using godless men (rather than handing Him over and godless men murdering Him).
     
  14. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

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    A burglar comes into my house and shoots me in the chest. Before the actual moment when my spirit departs my body, I say “Lord take my spirit.”

    Did the burglar not murder me because I was able to pray to God before the actual moment of my death?
     
  15. Arthur King

    Arthur King Active Member

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    Still have no clue what you mean by the phrase “taking his life”. I don’t think you know what you mean either, to be honest.

    When Jesus says it, he means he is willingly and voluntarily going to his murder, and he has the power to stop it from happening at any time. But no question there are sinners who are murdering him.
     
  16. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I never claimed “Satan had nothing to do” with Christ’s death. Satan influenced Judas to betray Jesus. Certainly the Jewish leaders actions, though not directly controlled by Satan, reflected Satan’s hatred for God.

    JonC gave a very accurate summary on the scripture related to this issue.

    The statement “Satan murdered Jesus”, besides being factually inaccurate, gives an impression of Jesus being under Satan’s authority, being weaker than Satan. It denies the self sacrifice of Christ and makes our Lord a helpless victim.

    That is why I reject the statement “Satan murdered Jesus”.

    peace to you
     
  17. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Every time you make these types of comparisons you diminish the self sacrafice of our Lord Jesus.

    No human being has the ability to give their Spirit into the hands of God at any moment. Jesus had the authority and ability to give His Spirit into the hands of the Father at any moment He chose.

    When His work on the cross was finished, He decided to place His Spirit into the hands of the Father.

    It was NOT that He knew He was about to die when He said the prayer, it was that He was about to give His Spirit into the hands of the Father so His body would die.

    peace to you
     
  18. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    This is not at all comparable to what happened with the death of Christ. Christ did not pray to God to take His Spirit. Christ actually delivered His spirit to the Father--no mere human being has ever been able or will be able to do what Christ died.

    No created being took Christ's spirit from Him--not wicked men nor Satan.
     
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  19. Scripture More Accurately

    Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member

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    I did not deny anything in my post that the Bible actually teaches is true; my post shows that the actual cause of Jesus' death was His voluntarily delivering His spirit into the hands of the Father. No human being(s) or Satan had anything to do with His doing so.
     
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  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I think it has to do with appearances (how it sounds).

    In a way Christ was a helpless victim, but ONLY by His choice (hence the description of "like a Lamb led to the slaughter).

    And Satan murdered Jesus in that Peter states that those men who Jesus said were of their father the Devil, doing Satan's work, murdered Him.

    BUT this cannot be divorced from Jesus laying down His life of His own accord rather than it being taken from Him.



    I think the focus depends on the point being made.

    Jesus focused on His willingness, His laying down His own life, when explaining that He has authority over His life (nobody else). He can lay it down and take it back up again.

    Peter was focusing on the murder of Christ as a sin, explaining to the Jewish leaders that they killed the Messiah but that there is forgiveness.

    One claim at the exclusion of another can be problematic. Even Peter told those he accused of murdering Christ that this was God's predetermined plan.


    BTW - If you get a chance read MacArthurs interpretation. He believes that Satan knew from the "first gospel" (the Genesis prophecy) that he would kill Christ but that it would result in his own defeat as Christ would be victorious. His (MacArthur's) point was that Satan is beneath God, even having to ask to "threash Peter as wheat".
     
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