Featured Matthew 16:21-23 and Satan's Role in the Crucifixion of Jesus

Just be glad that you weren't Jesus calling Peter, "Satan".

Scripture More Accurately wouldn't appreciate it.

Not only would it be said that Jesus' words, "do not serve any edifying purpose", as "unnecessarily antagonistic language", but they would make an "organ grinder," and a "monkey", responsible for influencing the words you were responding to.

The monkey made him do it.

Have you determined whether Satan is in Matthew 16:21-23?

Are you sure?

People have discussed that they don't see Satan in the only verses that you allow to be discussed.

Satan is not in the verses you want to discuss, any more than an "organ grinder," or "monkey", and if he was, he'd be against Jesus' death, so your thread is only about what you want to discuss that doesn't exist, or that is entirely backward.

Either way.

It's a forced non-existent, or groundless discussion.

Stop.

That looks like the Bible's meaning from within the very permitted verses themselves, 37.

Good show.

Nailed it.

"Point, 37".

 

One thing is absolutely certain: whoever it was who 'murdered' the Lord Jesus, it was not the people mentioned in John 8:31-59. 'Then they took up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.' His time had not yet come.
So who were these people? They were those who had, briefly, 'believed in Him' (John 8:30-31). There are no other people mentioned. Herod was not there; nor were Pilate, the Gentiles, nor the huge majority of the Jewish people, who are described in Acts of the Apostles 4:27f as being 'gathered together to do' God's will and purpose. Most of the Jews would be shouting, "Hosanna! Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord" (John 12:13), until they were 'stirred up' not by Satan, but by the chief priests to bray for His death (Mark 15:11). Nor is there any reason to suppose that these folk were possessed by the devil. Satan is well able to deceive unbelievers into doing his will without the necessity of indwelling them (Ephesians 2:1-3). Bob Dylan may not have been any sort of theologian, but he had it right at this point:

There is in John 8, no direct statement that Satan wanted Jesus dead. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas. Christ's atoning death on the cross would take all Satan's power away from him. That is why in his temptation of our Lord, in the words of Peter in Mark 8:32-33, at Gethsemane, in the words at the cross of every group without exception (Mark 15:29-32; Luke 23:36-37), he is urging Him to disobey the Father and not to die upon the cross. That Satan was a murderer from the beginning means that he is responsible for all deaths from the very first one. That he is the father of lies means that he told the very first one (Genesis 3:4). if he wanted Christ dead at the time of John 8 (and there is no firm reason to think he did), it was because if our Lord died in any other way than on the cross, He would not have taken away the curse on mankind (Galatians 3:10-14).

So who 'murdered' Jesus? No one. Just believe the words He says: "No one takes My life from Me." How much clearer do we want Him to be? "But I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.'

But if that is not enough; if some here are not prepared to take the words of our Lord at face value, here are some corroborating words from the Holy Spirit. '[He] Does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people's, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself' (Hebrews 7:27). '... But now, at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin, by the sacrifice of Himself' Hebrews 9:26: cf. also v.14). 'But this Man, when He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God ...' (Hebrews 10:12).

It was Christ Himself, at the command of God the Father, who offered Himself willingly for the salvation of mankind and the utter defeat of Satan. That wicked men condemned Him and nailed Him to the tree is not at issue, but were they doing the will of Satan? No! They were fulfilling 'the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God' (Acts 2:23). Nor was it done secretly by the powers of darkness; 'this thing was not done in a corner' Acts 26:26).

 

Right here, we may have a resolution.

"Ha" added to the word, "satan", means that it is not a proper noun.

Hebrew;

We see here, the reading of, "the satan";
23. wayiphen wayo’mer l’Phet’ros sur me`alay hasatan...

“Get away from Me, the satan!


https://ancient-hebrew.org/names/Satan.htm;
The Hebrew for Satan is הסטן (hasatan).

The prefix ה (ha) means "the" which identifies the noun סטן (satan) is a noun and not a proper name and should therefore be translated as "the adversary."

http://www.bayithamashiyach.com/Matthew.html;
The biblical Hebrew noun satan (sah-TAN) means “adversary” or “opponent.”

23. wayiphen wayo’mer l’Phet’ros sur me`alay hasatan mik’shol ‘atah li
ki lib’ak l’dib’rey b’ney-‘adam w’lo’ l’dib’rey ‘Elohim.

Matt16:23 But He turned around and said to Phetros (Kepha),

“Get away from Me, the satan! You are a stumbling block to Me,
because your heart is set on the things of sons of men and not on the things of Elohim.”
...

Greek;

‹23› ὁ δὲ στραφεὶς εἶπεν τῷ Πέτρῳ, Ὕπαγε ὀπίσω µου, Σατανᾶ·
σκάνδαλον εἶ ἐµοῦ, ὅτι οὐ φρονεῖς τὰ τοῦ θεοῦ ἀλλὰ τὰ τῶν ἀνθρώπων.

23 ho de strapheis eipen tŸ PetrŸ,
But he having turned around said to Peter,

Hypage opis mou, Satana; skandalon ei emou,
“Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me;

hoti ou phroneis ta tou theou alla ta tn anthrpn.
for you are not thinking the things of Elohim but the things of men.”

https://biblehub.com/greek/4567.htm;
Satanas: the adversary, Satan, i.e. the devil
Original Word: Σατανᾶς, ᾶ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: Satanas
Phonetic Spelling: (sat-an-as')
Definition: the adversary, Satan, the devil
Usage: an adversary, Satan.


And, may we call Σατανᾶς, vocative?; (vɒkətɪv ) Word forms: vocatives plural. countable noun.

A vocative is a word such as `darling' or ` sir' that is used to address someone or attract their attention.

4567 [e]
Satana
Σατανᾶ !
Satan
N-VMS, i.e., 'V', for vocative.
...

II Samuel 19:22;

King James Bible
"And David said, What have I to do with you, ye sons of Zeruiah, that ye should this day be adversaries unto me? shall there any man be put to death this day in Israel? for do not I know that I am this day king over Israel?" II Samuel 19:22.

Pulpit Commentary
Verse 22. - Ye sons of Zeruiah... adversaries unto me; literally, that ye be to me for a Satan; rendered "adversary" in Numbers 22:22, but by Ewald in this place "tempter." It probably means "one who would do me harm."

Keil and Delitzsch Biblical Commentary on the Old Testament;
What have I to do with you, ye sons of Zeruiah (cf. 2 Samuel 16:10), for ye become opponents to me to-day?" שׂטן, an opponent, who places obstacles in the way (Numbers 22:22)

adversaries
לְשָׂטָ֑ן (lə·śā·ṭān)
Preposition-l | Noun - masculine singular
Strong's 7854: An opponent -- Satan, the arch-enemy of good
see: Strong's Hebrew: 7854. שָׂטָן (satan) -- 27 Occurrences

In the LXX, II Samuel is II Kings (of IV) 19:22;
"that ye as it were lie in wait against me this day?"

Gill; that ye should this day be adversaries unto me? or a Satan unto me, as the word is, by advising him to do what would be prejudicial to his interest;
see Matthew 16:22.

 

I like where you put murdered in quotes.

Murdered, by itself, has a little too much 'hands-on' personal responsibility to it, especially the more permanent sounding finality of it.

Martin Marprelate says,

1.) "Christ's atoning death on the cross would take all Satan's power away from him."

2.) "That is why in his temptation of our Lord, in the words of Peter in Mark 8:32-33, at Gethsemane."

3.) "In the words at the cross of every group without exception (Mark 15:29-32; Luke 23:36-37), he is urging Him to disobey the Father and not to die upon the cross."

Let's grant Scripture More Accurately what he is saying is that the Devil didn't want Jesus to die.

Let's say this was a follow-up on Satan telling Jesus to bow at his feet and to just skip going to the cross, being buried, and being raised again on the third day.

Let's skip everything about what the 'Satan' here is.

Let's just say Jesus was quick on the draw and at the same time decided to respond to Peter and let Satan know that He knew that Satan was influencing Peter, directly, and trying to pull off another, "I want you to live and bow down to me", when Peter said, "be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee."

That leaves Jesus alive, with no crucifixion.

So again, from Matthew 16:21-23, the O.P. is about Satan's Role in the Crucifixion of Jesus, while Matthew 16:21-23, would teach that then, Satan's Role in the Crucifixion, at that time, was to get the crucifixion canceled, and for Jesus to continue just living right on along.

We sure didn't see that trick title, if we grant all that.

Matthew 16:21-23, as an O.P.
is about Satan's Role in the Crucifixion of Jesus.

However, there is an assumption made there, that Matthew 16:21-23 has some content about Satan and his Role in the Crucifixion of Jesus,

when the content of, Matthew 16:21-23, would be describing,
How Satan Attempted to Prevent the Crucifixion of Jesus.

There would be no Crucifixion and Satan, therefore, would have had no role in it, apart from being able to prevent it.

Is that trying to make any sense out of this mess?

So, we just get thrown, by Satan's Role in the Crucifixion of Jesus being to prevent Jesus' Crucifixion.

Jesus explicitly said something about,
"Satan's role in the crucifixion of Jesus"?

"Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offense unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men."

"My post brought out truth from what Jesus said about,
"Satan's role in the crucifixion of Jesus"?

Have you said what you believe that was?

By preventing it.

"A biblical understanding about what Scripture reveals", as an "account for what Jesus explicitly said on this occasion that directly pertains to that subject", of "Satan's role in the crucifixion of Jesus"

What was Satan's Role, there?

Could it be that you have rejected Matthew 16:21-23, which doesn't say anything about Satan's Role in the Crucifixion of Jesus?

I don't think he would allow us to wonder who inspired it.

If we try to grant you that, there was still quite a Byzantine Title given to it.

 

I believe it's from 'Slow Train Coming.'

The Scripture is very clear who put Christ on the cross. We have had the text so many times, but here you are again: 'Both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles [i.e. the Roman soldiers] and the people of Israel, were gathered together to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose determined before to be done' (Acts of the Apostles 4:27-28). Specifically, it was not the Jews who nailed our Lord to the to a cross - it was the Roman soldiers - but clearly they were involved. However, I have shown that the Jews spoken of in John 8 were a small and specific group who failed utterly to put our Lord to death.
But as for who put the Lord Jesus to death, Scripture is quite specific: no one. I have given John 10:18 and four texts from Hebrews to show that the Lord Jesus laid down His own life at the command of the Father, to take it up again

No. It is actually you who cannot reconcile these things. I have previously explained how I reconcile them, but you don't read people's posts with much comprehension. But again, the Jewish authorities did NOT nail our Lord to the cross All four Gospels make that clear. Nor did they put Him to death.

No problem at all for me. I can't speak for other Christians like you think you can..

This is a false and mendacious statement about me. I have reported you previously for libeling me in this way, but as I suspected, it was a waste of time and I didn't even receive the courtesy of a reply. It appears that you have the other mods in your pocket. Never mind. Proverbs 26:2 applies.
What you have is Satan exhibiting his "fierce wrath" by doing exactly what God wants to happen. How does that work? But Satan only 'knows that he has a short time' (Revelation 12:12) after he is cast out of heaven, which is after Christ is taken up to heaven (Revelation 12:5

Before the death and resurrection of Christ, Satan is able to enter right into the presence of God to accuse 'the brethren' before Him 'day and night' (Revelation 12:10). But with Christ's atoning death on the cross, the penalty has been paid, the sins of the brethren have already been forgiven and therefore Satan has nothing with which to accuse them (Romans 8:33-34).. Therefore he is cast down and cannot prevent the Gospel from going out and souls being saved (c.f. Mark 3:27 etc.). There is no question of Satan being in any way at the level of God; that is a stupid statement and you should be ashamed of yourself. If anyone is making out Satan to be at the level of God, it is you, since you are suggesting that Satan killed Christ who is God.