Featured Is God Intrinsically Just?

Note this poster is addressing me and not the topic PSA is a fiction.

Transatlantic Methodists were also united in their endorsement of a universal atonement and free will. That Christ died for all rather than an elect few, and that humans had a choice in the salvation process, were fundamental beliefs connecting Methodists in England and America. These core beliefs helped distinguish Methodists from most other varieties of evangelicalism in the eighteenth century, specifically those theological traditions which drew heavily on Calvin’s interpretation of the atonement. The universal atonement remained an integral part of Methodists’ theology of redemption during the entire period under review. ​

 

LOL, universal atonement is not PSA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

LOL, here is the quote from the OP Martin posted:

So why did Owen change his mind? Partly it came from his defense of Penal Substitution against the Socinians who denied it.​

 

...but it is ultimately PSA vs CV, right? As shown in the OP:

 

Always interesting to learn the Methodists believe in mutually exclusive Limited Atonement and Universal Atonement. What is next?

 

A sacrificial payment of Infinite Value had to substituted to atone the Infinite Offence of the sins of God's Elect, that were committed against a Just and Holy Eternal God.

That is what Christianity is all about.

That why God's Eternal Plan of Salvation, to Provide a Lamb, Originated in Eternity Past, a long with God's choice of the Elect.

God did this to have companions in communion with Him throughout all Eternity and why Adam wasn't created a robot, or Angel, or confirmed in innocence.

"Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world" John 17:24.

That they may "be with me where I am."

Adam had to be created mutable and with the eventuality of him changing and sinning, and God had the Plan of Redemption in place, that was in keeping with His Nature of being Just.

From the Nature and Attributes of God, by T.P. Simmons.

Justice.

The justice of God is taught in

Gen. 18:25; That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

Deut. 32:4; He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Psa. 7:9-12; 18:24;
7:9Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.

10My defence is of God, which saveth the upright in heart.

11God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.

12If he turn not, he will whet his sword; he hath bent his bow, and made it ready.

18: 24Therefore hath the LORD recompensed me according to my righteousness, according to the cleanness of my hands in his eyesight.

Rom. 2:5-8; 5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath

"It was the justice of God that made it necessary for Christ to die in order that men might be saved. The justice of God makes it impossible for God to let sin go unpunished. The death of Christ made it possible for Him to be just and yet the justifier of believing sinners. (Rom. 3:26).

"In the sacrifice of Jesus the Scripture was fulfilled which says: "Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other (Psa. 85:10).

"The salvation of believers is an act of grace toward them; yet it is an act of justice to Jesus Christ who died in the stead of all who will ever believe."

God is Just, but no we don't want His Justice apart from His Mercy, in Christ.

 

I always thought that somehow it was the idea of God being just and always doing what is right that allowed Satan in some sense to have something on God himself. When Adam and Eve rebelled it seems that God could have simply done what he willed to Satan and told Adam and Eve to knock it off and keep them in the garden but that simply wouldn't have been right. Well, "wouldn't have been right to who"? It has to be God's intrinsic nature because no one could tell God what to do. But Satan could appeal to God's nature and because of Adam's sin put God as it were in a position where if God justly destroyed Satan at that moment he would have also had to destroy man, if he were truly just.

That's why when I see some early church father say there was a ransom paid to Satan, although I don't agree I also don't ridicule them completely because we know scripture says a ransom was paid but to who? I would say it was to God in the sense that it was what seemed right in His eyes to satisfy His sense of justice so that he could rightly forgive as he desired yet be true to His just nature. When you put all the verses together it is clear to me at least that it is done by an atonement that is vicarious and substitutionary and penal in nature. But what is driving this is God's just nature and his love. Of course, we would never presume upon any of this except for the fact that God has himself chosen to reveal this to us about himself in scripture.

 

Nothing OF GOD is external TO GOD. God does as He pleases ("works all things after the council of His will"), thus no decision is the result of any external influence on God ... including a "sense" that God OUGHT TO do something. Therefore JUSTICE (as it relates to flowing FROM God) is innate to who God is. If Scripture is the "norma normans non normata" ... then how much more is GOD the "rule that has no higher rule and against which all other rules must be measured!"

That's my opinion on "the nature of God".

I hope that helps.

 

I agree, but to be fair ... God punished Himself. A distinction with a difference (unlike all those cute little baby lambs).