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On "Throwing Your Vote Away"

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by KenH, Jan 12, 2024.

  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I am not sure that denying a passage while saying you are not is a logical position.

    Either those who have been redeemed, who call God "Father", who have been chosen by God's foreknowledge", and who have been born again will be judged by God impartially according to their works or Scripture is wrong.

    You can't hold your position on my post and not deny God's Word.

    The more logical (and biblical) direction you could have taken was a discussion in the manner of this judgment. Instead you became fixated on the judgment of the lost.
     
  2. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    We are certainly on different trains of thought.

    Welp, Jon, looks like your train didn't make it.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I see I misunderstood your previous post….
    When we have no information that indicates otherwise, do we take them at their word based on their profession of faith or do we start looking for “fruit” that proves their profession of faith?

    I will take them at their word.

    peace to you
     
  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I agree. The only reason not to take a claim of faith at one's word is if their behavior contracts that claim.
     
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Lol....God always makes it.

    Scripture tells us several times that we will be judged by our works. We will be held accountable for our voice. We will be held accountable for our works.

    We cannot deny that without denying Scripture.

    I am not talking about the judgment of the lost (condemnation).

    But you are wrong to deny passages that don't suit you. And that is exactly what you did.
     
  6. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    I did no such thing.
     
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Sure you did.

    I asked if you believed those redeemed by the blood of Christ would be impartiality judged by God according to thir works. You answered that they wouldn't.

    That is directly denying the passage. I even tried to pull you back from denying the passage by pointing out we were not defining that judgment (but you kept pushing towards the judgment of the lost).

    But to present a biblical answer, we should conduct ourselves knowing that God will judge our works. We will be accountable for our voice and deeds.

    This isn't condemnation (where you were fixated).
     
  8. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    No, I did not.

    God's elect were judged at the cross in Christ as their Surety. The reprobates will be judged based on their filthy rags works.

    No, it is not.

    If God judges me based on even the "best" of my imperfect, incomplete works, then I am totally hopeless and bound for Hell.
     
  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    No, it is not. You are wrong to deny one passage and provide another to justify that denial.

    How would judging a Christian by their works and holding a believer accountable for their voice (which Scripture says God WILL do) equate to going to Hell???.

    You keep going to the Judgment of the lost. Why? We are not condemned. But we will be held accountable for our words and deeds.
     
  10. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    God's elect, chosen by God and given to Christ to be their Surety and accomplish a perfect, complete salvation on their behalf, have already been judged in Christ. God cannot judge them again. Maybe this hymn, written by Augustus Toplady, will explain it to you:

    Isaiah 53:10; Psalms 116:7

    1. From whence this fear and unbelief?
    Hast thou, O Father, put to grief
    Thy spotless Son for me?
    And will the righteous Judge of men
    Condemn me for that debt of sin
    Which, Lord, was charged on thee?

    2. Complete atonement thou hast made,
    And to the utmost farthing paid
    Whate’er thy people owed;
    How then can wrath on me take place,
    If sheltered in thy righteousness,
    And sprinkled with thy blood?

    3. If thou hast my discharge procured,
    And freely in my room endured
    The whole of wrath divine,
    Payment God cannot twice demand,
    First at my bleeding Surety’s hand,
    And then again at mine.

    4. Turn, then, my soul, unto thy rest;
    The merits of thy great High Priest
    Speak peace and liberty;
    Trust in his efficacious blood,
    Nor fear thy banishment from God,
    Since Jesus died for thee.
     
  11. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I think I understand your point concerning the 1 Peter passage.

    Believers are not judged by God to determine whether we are “saved” but rather our works are judged by God as to whether they are worthy of a profession of faith in Jesus.

    Do I understand you correctly?

    peace to you
     
  12. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    If God judges me, for any reason or purpose, based on whether I have done something worthy, then I am hopeless and bound for Hell.
     
  13. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    KenH, I understand the point. The question isn’t whether a person is worthy of salvation. No one is worthy. However, scripture does clearly state our works are judged whether to be worthy (not of salvation) but of our profession of faith.

    I like to say Baptists don’t believe doing any good work will get them into heaven… and many have decided to prove it.

    Salvation is always about a transformed life which includes doing the works God has prepared for us.

    peace to you
     
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  14. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Salvation is ALL about Christ. Period.
     
  15. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    No, KenH, it is about Christ transforming a person

    peace to you
     
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  16. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    No, it is about Christ Jesus procuring salvation for God's elect, based on Christ fulfilling all of the conditions for their salvation and preservation.

    The flesh is still the flesh. The elect's soul is regenerated, not his flesh. It is still the same filthy, vile, wretched body as it was before regeneration( Romans 7:7-25). The new body comes at the resurrection when Christ returns and establishes the new heavens and earth in which righteousness dwells. As Ephesians 2:10 states, it is only the works that God has already ordained and that He does in His elect that they do anything good(1 Corinthians 15:10; Galatians 2:20).
     
  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    The first part is right.

    But I don't know how our works are judged. That is something I have wondered about.

    What I do know is that Peter addresses "born again", "redeemed", "sanctified" believers and tells them to conduct their lives in a holy manner knowing that the God they call Father will also judge them according to their works.

    I know that Jesus told us we are accountable for our voice.

    I know that Paul speaks of the believer will be accountable for his works - that some will be reworded but others will have everything burned up, though they themselves will be saved (as one who escapes a fire).

    So to simply suggest Christians will not be judged according to their works (although they themselves will be saved) is to deny several passages.

    But I do not know how that will look.

    I tend to think of it as a refining fire. Some things endure, others are destroyed.
     
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  18. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Hymn vs Scripture. Interesting.

    The Bible says several times that Christians will be judged according to their works.

    Now, you keep going back to salvation which is not the issue. You keep talking about the judgment of the lost, which is not the issue. You say Christians will not go to Hell, which nobody denies.

    Get on the subject, Bro. There is a reason Jesus, Paul, and Peter spoke of God judging believers by their works.
     
  19. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    Everyone is judged for their works.

    The saved were judged at the cross of Christ for their sins, but still face a judgment of their works for rewards or loss of rewards.

    The loss are to be judged to determine if they are to receive few or many stripes.
     
  20. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Out of curiosity, in your paradigm, what reward are you most angling for - a larger mansion, a closer place to stand near God's throne, a bigger "Atta-boy!" from God?
     
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