Featured Romans 9:11, A calling, not one's works, precedes the election.

Romans 8:30 will be helpful to understand this passage.

“Moreover, those He did predestine, He also called”

The word “predestined” is basically a construction term meaning “to mark out beforehand”. It referred preparing a piece of property to be built upon.

Regardless, Romans 8:30 helps understand the “order”. God “marks” the person (predestined) and then they are called.

Hope that helps.

peace to you

 

God predestines people not events and because they are elect, his calling is a quickening... Brother Glen

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

 

How many times do you reckon that God would need to demonstrate through history the manner in which the children of men could and would become the children of God, beginning with Cain and Abel. Romans 7:1 through Romans 11:12 is a context of the children of Abraham and by context have advantages because of it but that fact does not make them children of God. It was God who said to these people in John 3 that they must be born again. The only way to become a child of God is through a birth. Since they have already had a physical birth nationally at the first Passover they must have a collective second birth that is spiritual and made possible through the second born son of God, Jesus Christ. This paragraph in Romans 9 precedes any mention of a remnant which is what resulted from this national rejection of the new birth of his collective son through Jesus Christ.

Ex 4:21 And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go. 22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn: 23 and I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.

Individual Israelites are not children of God in the OT. and they are not children of God in the NT until and unless they receive the Spirit of God by faith in the person and work of God's redeemer, Jesus Christ. One has the entire chapter 8 that explains this to a sin hardened nation, but there will be a day when every member of the children of Jacob will be saved but it will not be until there are few left on the earth to save in the coming "day of the LORD" judgement. That time is not now when this letter was written to the Romans in AD 58 when they have had 28 years to repent since the cross and resurrection of Jesus Christ, therefore God has taken in the gentiles who will believe to fulfill an eternal purpose for this time. It is God's choice on whom he will have mercy and his calling now includes the gentiles to whom he will give his Spirit when they believe along with the remnant believers of Israel who before have been born again..

When this time is over and even gentiles will no longer believe then Jesus Christ will return and destroy all rebels from off the earth and the few people left on the earth are those who were saved during the first 3 1/2 years of the 7 years of what the scriptures call "Jacobs's trouble." He will establish his kingdom on earth over a 100% converted world at the beginning and the remnant doctrine of Israel will have been fulfilled and will be no more.

There is a time coming when all the men and angels left to go into the eternal state, when time will be no more, will be sons of God, every one.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Isa 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it (the earth); and it (the transgression) shall fall, and not rise again.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day (the day of the LORD), that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

Isa 24:5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
6 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

Isa 13:6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isa 34:8 For it is the day of the LORD’S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

I see the commentators on these forums completely miss the meaning of Romans 9 because they miss the context and will not allow the words to mean what they say. That is the key to understanding God, believing his words and honoring their context. God deals with the mechanisms of our inclusion as gentiles in the New Covenant relationship with God through Jesus Christ but it is in other epistles such as Ephesians and Colossians where the mystery of Christ is explained in writing as touching us. God really does desire that his children understand these great truths that he reveals to the honest seeker but more importantly He wants all to be born again of his Spirit through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. This must come first. These national and dispensational truths are not simple truths and must have a Devine teacher but the gospel of Jesus Christ is so simple that a child can understand it and be saved. The scriptures and faithful men who have been saved and become children of God through the new birth or the second birth declares that whosoever will may come to God through faith in Jesus Christ and be born into his family by his Spirit. The preachers of the true gospel of Christ have a personal testimony of the power and faithfulness of God to do as he says he will do when we believe.

Many saved men will not understand these deep things of God on this side of eternity because they are not diligent to study them but no unsaved man will be able to see them and put them in their context. We are all admonished with these words from 2 Cor 13:5;

2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

God, the Judge of all the earth elects (justifies) all of them, but only them who believes his words.

 

Election is before calling, election is before the foundation, but calling is in time 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

The word “foreknew” means to know in a relationship. It does not mean God looked forward in time, learned something new (who would believe) and then “predestined” them.

That really conflicts with the meaning of predestined.

peace to you

 

I just gave you scripture, cant help if you cant see, I cant give eyes to see, sorry

 

Like I said I just showed you, it didnt phase you any. Thats why I dont get into that, show me scripture stuff, when its shown, its not believed still.

 

Like I said, it doesnt matter how much scripture you are shown, God has to open up your eyes to see. I cant do it

 

Like I said, it doesnt matter how much scripture you are shown, God has to open up your eyes to see. I cant do it