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Featured How are the lost "drawn" to Christ?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Mar 5, 2024.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    All the lost do not become His sheep. 2 Peter 2:1 Attraction does not equal compulsion. See Matthew 7 and 13. Hebrews 6:4 speaks of those heard, understood, and then trampled upon the blood of Christ, denying the Master who bought them. Carefully consider Hebrews 10:26-29.
     
  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Scripturally, you're hard put to separate 'lost' from 'lost sheep', not goats.
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet more nonsense, but scripture is crystal.

    All the lost do not become His sheep. 2 Peter 2:1

    Attraction does not equal compulsion. See Matthew 7 and 13.

    Hebrews 6:4 speaks of those who heard, understood, and then trampled upon the blood of Christ, denying the Master who bought them. Carefully consider Hebrews 10:26-29.
     
  4. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

    7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

    8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.


    Brother Glen:)
     
  5. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    If you want to click on this link first,
    https://www.fbcindependence.org/Bible-Studies

    it will take you to an page
    where you can find the title of this little .pdf workbook,
    "The Person and Work of the Holy Spirit" by Ron Crisp

    and then look up this chapter,
    Chapter 10 - The Preparatory Work of the Holy Spirit in Salvation........25

    it gives a great explanation that answers the O.P.,

    "How are the lost "drawn" to Christ?",
    but in a surprising way.

    Because, as we will see:

    "Death, sin, Judgment and Eternity are not Realities to the unregenerate
    (Isaiah 28: 13-15).

    13. "But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept,
    precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line;

    here a little,
    and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward,
    and be broken, and snared, and taken.


    14. Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men,
    that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.

    15 "Because ye have said,
    We have made a covenant with death,
    and with hell are we at agreement;

    "when the overflowing scourge shall pass through,
    it shall not come unto us:

    "for we have made lies our refuge,
    and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:"

    The "drawing" of the lost will include The Work of The Holy Spirit
    in their "Awakening, Illumination,
    and "CONVICTION OF THEIR SIN, FOR HAVING BROKEN GOD'S LAW.


    Do you remember that Paul was talking about the Holy Spirit's Work
    prior to his salvation, included the Direct Influence
    that the preaching of the Word of God had him, when
    the Holy Spirit used the law to convict Paul in his soul
    that he was a sinner that WAS IN NEED OF A SAVIOR.

    Romans 7:7 "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid.
    Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust,
    except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.


    8 "But sin, taking occasion by the commandment,
    wrought in me all manner of concupiscence.
    For without the law sin was dead.

    9 "For I was alive without the law once:
    but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

    10 "And the commandment, which was ordained to life,
    I found to be unto death.

    11 "For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me,
    and by it slew me."

    Galatians 3:22 "But the scripture hath concluded all under sin,
    that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.


    23. "But before faith came, we were kept under the law,
    shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

    24 "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ,
    that we might be justified by faith.

    25 "But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."

    So, it 'might be' surprising how instrumental and essential
    that the preaching of the law and the Gospel is
    in the Preparatory Work of the Holy Spirit
    as He draws a lost soul to Christ. re: O.P.).


    The Holy Spirit CONVICTED OUR LOST SOUL BY THE LAW,
    TO
    "BRING US TO CHRIST".

    When The Holy Spirit CONVICTED us of being sinners offending God,
    we knew then, for the first time, that we were lost.


    Galatians 3:24, "the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ".

    con't: the outlined contents of the .PDF, there:
     
  6. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Then, there is some more good information on Common Grace before
    and chapters about Regeneration and Assurance afterward:


    Chapter 8 - The Work of the Holy Spirit in Common Grace – Part I ......20
    Chapter 9 - The Work of the Holy Spirit in Common Grace – Part II .....22
    Chapter 10 - The Preparatory Work of the Holy Spirit in Salvation........25
    Chapter 11 - The Work of the Holy Spirit in Regeneration.....................29
    Chapter 12 - The Indwelling of the Holy Spirit......................................32
    Chapter 13 - The Work of the Holy Spirit in Assurance .........................

    But this:
    Chapter 10 - The Preparatory Work of the Holy Spirit in Salvation........25
    has much more information under these abbreviated headings, below;

    (of all the places that I should have cut & pasted the whole thing!!,
    these are just portions of the info under these headings there.)

    INTRODUCTION:

    "Commonly there is a work preparatory to regeneration that takes place in the sinner’s heart. Because salvation is a moral as well as a legal work this is to be expected.

    "Those who are to eternally enjoy the benefits of faith in Christ are first made to see their need of Him. The self-righteous spirit of man must be broken up that the Saviour may receive all the GLORY in salvation...."

    I. AWAKENING.

    "No one can overestimate the danger that unsaved men are in
    (John 3:1.8, Hebrews 10:31), yet the Bible portrays them as asleep,
    blind, dead and unconscious.

    "Death, sin, Judgment and Eternity are not Realities to the unregenerate
    (Isaiah 28: 15).

    "Men slumber on the brink of Hell.

    "In Awakening the sinner, God's Spirit Impresses upon the mind
    the Reality of Eternity and Judgment.

    "The sinner becomes aware that he is in danger of God's Wrath.

    "Spiritual matters become important.

    "Not everyone who is Awakened is then saved.

    Some are lulled back to sleep by an Empty Profession of Religion
    or the pull of the world. (Acts 24:25).

    II. ILLUMINATION.

    "While only the Regenerate are "renewed in knowledge"
    (Colossians 3:10) yet the unsaved can receive a degree of enlightenment.

    "When a sinner is under Conviction
    he may be ignorant of the nature of faith,
    but he sees clearly the danger of sin and the seriousness of Eternity.

    "For the first time his soul becomes important.

    "Does not all this require a degree of Illumination?

    "Even the natural man can be made to fear Hell
    and be concerned for his Eternal Welfare.

    "This is of course different from the Light of Regeneration
    that enables a man to love God.

    "This Illumination then is simply a stirring up of man's natural mind
    to see the danger of sin and Judgment."

    III. CONVICTION.

    While "Awakening" deals primarily with danger, yet
    "Conviction" is the Work of God
    whereby the cause of our danger is revealed.

    "In Conviction a man is convinced and reproved
    concerning his sinful condition.

    "This alone can give the sinner a desire to know Christ,"
    as Prompted by the Convicting Unction of The Holy Spirit...."

    A. The Areas of Conviction - In John 16:8-11,
    we find three areas wherein men are CONVICTED.

    "1. Of sin - God Convicts men of great sins
    they have committed (Acts 2:36-37)..."

    "2. Of Righteousness -
    Men are CONVICTED of the Righteousness of Christ,
    and of their need of His Righteousness (Matthew 5:6).

    "3. Of Judgment to Come - Judgment often has reference to rule.
    Men are convinced that just as Satan will be vanquished,
    so Christ is the Coming King, and that resistance is folly.

    "The powers of evil have no chance for victory,
    but all will ultimately stand before God.

    "B. The Need of Conviction.

    "1. Without Conviction men would not be ready
    to admit their total defilement..."

    "2. Conviction is Preparatory to Repentance.

    "Godly sorrow (II Corinthians 7:10)
    precedes Repentance which is a permanent change of heart
    and mind about sin.

    "C. The Means of Conviction.

    "While Conviction is a work of God's Spirit,
    yet He is Pleased to use certain Truths in this Work.

    "Just as He often uses the Truth of God’s Wrath
    to awaken sinners so in Conviction He uses:

    1. The law (Romans 3:19-20; 7:7-13).

    "Men commonly judge themselves by their neighbors' actions,
    but in Conviction they see that it is God’s Glory they fall short of
    (Romans 3:23).

    "2. The Goodness of God (Romans 2:4).

    "Many have testified that it was a view of God's Goodness
    that convinced them of their sin.

    D. The Earmarks of True Conviction.

    1. Real Conviction causes a man to accept his guilt
    (Psalms 51:4, Luke 18:9-14).

    2. Real Conviction destroys self-righteousness
    (Luke 18:9-14, Isaiah 64:6).

    3. Real Conviction sees sin as being against God
    (Psalms 51:4, Luke 15:18.)

    4. Real conviction leads one to Christ,
    rather than to worldly despair (II Corinthians 7:10).

    "To see ourselves as we are is a prerequisite to seeing Christ.

    "In the first four beatitudes (Matthew 5:3-6) our Lord explains
    that only those who have experienced such Conviction
    are truly blessed.

    "IV. A DESIRE FOR THE MEANS OF GRACE.

    "Before a soul is saved the Holy Spirit
    will often produce within him or her a desire...to hear God's Word."

    CONCLUSION.

    "We hope that each student of God's Word can now clearly see
    that the purpose of the Spirit's Preparatory Work in salvation
    is to prepare the sinner to appreciate the Lord Jesus Christ.

    "Every Work of the Spirit Leads the sinner closer to the realization
    that Faith in Christ alone can save the soul."
     
  7. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    ??? Youre in a kosmos of your own Van. I've no idea how any of this responds to my comment.
     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Once more you address me and hide from the topic.

    All the lost do not become His sheep. 2 Peter 2:1

    Attraction does not equal compulsion. See Matthew 7 and 13.

    Hebrews 6:4 speaks of those who heard, understood, and then trampled upon the blood of Christ, denying the Master who bought them. Carefully consider Hebrews 10:26-29.
     
  9. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Christ refers to them as SHEEP that are lost, not as goats that are lost.

    6
    My people have been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray; they have turned them away on the mountains; they have gone from mountain to hill; they have forgotten their resting-place. Jer 50

    11
    For thus saith the Lord Jehovah: Behold, I myself, even I, will search for my sheep, and will seek them out.
    12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered abroad, so will I seek out my sheep; and I will deliver them out of all places whither they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day. Ezek 34

    14 I am the good shepherd; and I know mine own, and mine own know me, Jn 10

    24 But he answered and said, I was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mt 15

    5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and charged them, saying, Go not into any way of the Gentiles, and enter not into any city of the Samaritans:
    6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mt 10

    176 I have gone astray like a lost sheep; Seek thy servant; For I do not forget thy commandments. Psalm 120

    4 What man of you, having a hundred sheep, and having lost one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
    5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
    6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and his neighbors, saying unto them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost. Lu 15
     
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Good Grief. Jeremiah 50:6 refers folks taken to Babylon. Again you are claiming that those included in the Promise all were God's possession, rather than believers whose had gained approval by faith.

    Then you conflate "the Sheep" with "My Sheep."

    Matthew 10:6 does say to go to the lost sheep of Israel, but later Christ sends His disciples to sheep of another flock.

    The my sheep of Luke 15:6 refers literally to animals belonging to human owner who rejoices at finding his lamb.
     
  11. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Good grief, the point goes right over your CDS infected brain.

    I'm not conflating anything. You're twisting the scripture. These are His sheep, not goats.
     
    #31 kyredneck, Mar 17, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2024
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Addressing people and claiming they are wrong, rather than addressing the topic requires no study or knowledge of scripture.

    Jeremiah 50:6 refers folks taken to Babylon. Again you are claiming that those included in the Promise all were God's possession, rather than believers whose had gained approval by faith.

    Then you conflate "the Sheep" with "My Sheep."

    And then overlook that those Jesus redeems become His Sheep, not the other way around. :)

    Matthew 10:6 does say to go to the lost sheep of Israel, but later Christ sends His disciples to sheep of another flock.

    The my sheep of Luke 15:6 refers literally to animals belonging to human owner who rejoices at finding his lamb.
     
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    In the New Testament, we are drawn (attracted) by seeing or becoming aware that God demonstrated His love for us by dying for us when we were yet sinners. Romans 5:8. We love Him because He first loved us.1 John 4:19. Clearly attraction rather than compulsion is in view in these New Testament verses.
     
  14. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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  15. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    The 'lost sheep' in all the passages I cited are God's people. Thus my original statement:

    'You people' have gommed up the scriptural intent of the word 'lost' just as badly as you have the scriptural intent of the word 'saved'.
     
  16. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

    An interesting thought.

    And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away. But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen. Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son. Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.

    Deut 32:26 I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men:

    Tell me when the remembrance of the house of Judah has ceased from among men? What year or century?
     
    #36 percho, Mar 17, 2024
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2024
  17. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. Jn 10

    4 and he fell upon the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? Acts 9
     
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Endless conflation, His sheep are not the sheep.
     
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    In the Old Testament, God says he draws by "hesed" translated as lovingkindness or steadfast love. Our human response to seeing or becoming aware that God has demonstrated His love for us is to be attracted to God. Jeremiah 31:3. Clearly attraction rather than compulsion is in view in this Old Testament verse.

    In the New Testament, we are drawn (attracted) by seeing or becoming aware that God demonstrated His love for us by dying for us when we were yet sinners. Romans 5:8. We love Him because He first loved us.1 John 4:19. Clearly attraction rather than compulsion is in view in these New Testament verses.

    John 6:44
    “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

    Here come to Me refers contextually to coming to believe in Christ as Savior and Lord, see the next verse where "everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me."

    John 12:32
    “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself.”

    Here "people" has been supplied as the group "all" (pas) refers to, but actually the idea is all those who become aware of Christ sacrificing His life for humanity will be attracted by His demonstration of love for them. Again our human response to the Father's revealed "Lamb of God" is the inward power that attracts us to Christ.

    Isaiah 54:13 NASB
    “All your sons will be [fn] taught by the LORD;
    And the well-being of your sons will be great.
    _________________
    Footnote: or "disciples of the LORD."

    In the NASB, when we see Lord in all caps, LORD is used to translate a shortened form of Yahweh. To be a disciple of God indicates not only a person striving to learn the Lord's instructions, but moreover, striving to become like the Lord, or refers to our efforts to become "Christ-like."

    Thus, John 6:45 NASB
    “It is written in the Prophets: ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
    refers to Isaiah 54:13, and presents the idea that the person has a heart-felt desire and deep-seat commitment to trust in Christ as their savior and to follow Christ as their Lord and Master. And this inner zeal demonstrates they have been drawn by God's sacrificial love.
     
  20. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    6 Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Mt 5
     
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