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Featured Matthew 7:21 refutes Unconditional Election.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 37818, Mar 21, 2024.

  1. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Eph 1:11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
    Eph 1:12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
    Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
    Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
     
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  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another off topic nonsense post. Your faith has nothing to do with scripture.

    I have explained these passages time and time again. But you never, repeat never, have the grace to address any view inconsistent with Calvinism's bogus interpretations.

    There is a debate over why "eis" (locative meaning of entry into something) is used in these (post #38) verses rather than "epi" (on) or "en" (in). My view, shared by many, but probably not most scholars, is that the phrase refers to God's action of translocating the person from being in the realm of darkness (in Adam) to being placed into Christ's spiritual body. Thus the action is taken based on God crediting the person's faith toward Christ as righteousness. It follows that this faith would be "live faith" (i.e. faith from which faithfulness would flow because of its deep commitment) unlike the "faith" of soil #2 or #3 in Matthew 13. A faith that is the person's overriding priority, more valued than earthly treasures such as possessions or human relationships.

    Thus all these verses indicate God's conditional election of individuals during their lives, after they came to trust in God and His Christ.
    I believer, and this is my faith, that everyone "in Christ" has been chosen and placed into Christ's spiritual body.

    The naysayer seems unable to present his view of the actual topic.
     
  3. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Galatians 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

    4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

    5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.


    I'm Brother Glen... Welcome to the Baptist Board!
     
  4. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure why you see it that way, but I don't, and I haven't for many years now.
    To me, it's a "forensic" ( evidential ) statement... not a condition that we as men have to meet in order to "get into the good graces of God".

    We already know that salvation is by grace, not works ( Ephesians 2:8-9 ), so with that in mind, please look at it again:

    " Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

    In the above, I clearly see that not every one that acknowledges Him as Lord will enter the kingdom of Heaven...
    But, those that do the will of God the Father, will enter in.
    Since the believer has God doing His will through them:

    " For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure." ( Philippians 2:13 )

    ...then they will, of course, enter into the kingdom of Heaven;
    They, as His elect chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, cannot come to do otherwise... just as they cannot be lost ( John 10:27-30 ).

    Christ in them will make it happen. :)
     
    #44 Dave G, Apr 5, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2024
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  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    It is a misrepresentation of the condition that there is any kind of merit do God's will. The condition being God's will is not and cannot be merited. Salvation must be received as a gift. Ephesians 2:8-9.
     
  6. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Think logically about what your position leads to.
    Quoting you "But, those that do the will of God the Father, will enter in."

    So if God determines the will of the people and we know He desires that all be saved then logically all should be saved unless 1} The will of the father is not what you think it is or 2} God is disingenuous and thus we cannot trust what He says since we know not everyone is saved.

    Now we know that God is not disingenuous as He cannot lie. So that only leaves your wrong conclusion as to what the will of the father is.

    But we know what the will of the father is. That you believe in the Son. John 6:29
    "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent." God does not believe for us as your view would require. That is why God can be just and condemn all those that reject His son.

    Even the verse you quote Eph 2:8-9 does not support your view.
    For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
    And we know that salvation / eternal life is the gift of God
    Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    And we can know that faith is the condition that God requires
    Act 16:30 And he brought them out and said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
    Act 16:31 So they said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

    Note the question and the answer. The jailer must believe as a condition of being saved. That is the will of God.
     
  7. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    "The condition" of and for Salvation
    is to Receive The Person of Jesus Christ, when:

    "God hath Given to us Eternal Life,
    and this Life is in His Son."

    Receiving The Witness of God
    from God about His Son is Eternal Life:
    9;
    "If we receive the witness of men, the Witness of God is Greater:
    for this is the Witness of God which He hath Testified of His Son.


    Being Given Belief in God's Record
    that God Gave of Jesus is Salvation:
    10;
    "He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself:
    he that believeth not God hath made Him a liar;
    because he believeth not the Record that God Gave of His Son.


    GOD GIVES ETERNAL LIFE
    WHEN HE GIVES A LOST SOUL HIS SON.
    11;
    "And this is the Record, that:
    God hath Given to us Eternal Life,
    and this Life is in His Son."

    ETERNAL LIFE IS IN JESUS
    AND WITHOUT JESUS THERE IS NO LIFE;
    12;
    "He that hath the Son hath Life;
    and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.


    BEING GIVEN BELIEF
    IN GOD'S WRITTEN WORD OF JESUS IS ETERNAL LIFE;
    13;
    "These things have I written unto you
    that believe on The Name of the Son of God;
    that ye may know that ye have Eternal Life,
    and that ye may believe on The Name of the Son of God."
     
  8. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    "Not everyone that saith unto Me Lord, Lord,...."

    "Not everyone that calls Christ his Lord and Master,
    professes subjection to Him, or that calls upon His Name,
    or is called by His Name
    ; or makes use of it in his Public Ministrations.

    "There are many who desire to be called, and accounted Christians,
    and who make mention of the Name of Christ in their sermons,
    only to take away their reproach, to cover themselves,
    and gain credit with, and get into the affections
    and goodwill of the people;

    "but have no hearty love to Christ, nor true faith in Him:
    nor is it their concern to Preach His Gospel, Advance His Glory,
    and Promote His Kingdom and Interest;


    "their chief view is to please men, aggrandize themselves,
    and set up the power of human nature
    in opposition to the Grace of God, and the Righteousness of Christ.

    "Now not every one of these, no, not any of them,

    "shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven."

    "This is to be understood not of the Outward Dispensation of the Gospel,
    or the Gospel church state, or the visible church of Christ on Earth,
    in which sense this phrase is sometimes used;

    "because such persons may, and often do, enter here on Earth;
    but of eternal glory, into which none shall enter,

    "but he that doeth the Will of My Father which is in heaven."

    "This, as it may regard private Christians,
    intends not merely Outward Obedience to the Will of God,
    declared in His law, nor barely subjection to the Ordinances of the Gospel;

    "but more especially Faith in Christ for life and Salvation;

    "which is the source of all True Evangelical Obedience,
    and without which nothing is acceptable to God.

    "He that seeth the Son, looks unto Him, ventures on Him,
    commits Himself to Him, trusts in Him, relies on Him,
    and believes on Him for Righteousness, Salvation, and Eternal Life,
    he it is that does the Will of the Father, and he only;


    "and such a one, as he is desirous of doing the will of God
    in all acts of cheerful obedience to it, without dependence thereon;

    "so he shall certainly enter The Kingdom of Heaven,
    and have Everlasting Life; see John 6:40;

    "And this is the Will of Him that sent Me,
    that everyone which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him,
    may have Everlasting Life: and I Will raise him up at the Last Day."


    "but as these words chiefly respect preachers,

    "the sense of them is this, that only such
    who are faithful dispensers of the Word
    shall enter into the Joy of their Lord.

    "Such do the Will of Christ's Father, and so his own,
    which are the same, who fully
    and faithfully preach the Gospel of the Grace of God;

    "who declare The Whole Counsel of God,
    and keep back nothing that is profitable to the souls of men;

    "who are neither ashamed of the testimony of Christ,
    nor afraid of the faces of men;

    "but as they are put in trust with the Gospel, so they speak it boldly,
    with all sincerity, not as pleasing men, but God,
    and commend themselves to every man's conscience in the Sight of God:
    such as these shall have an abundant entrance
    into the Kingdom and Glory of God.

    "The Vulgate Latin adds this clause,
    "he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven",
    and so does Munster's Hebrew edition of the Gospel
    according to Matthew.


    from: Matthew 7 Gill's Exposition
     
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