Featured There is No Natural Goodness in Me

Isaiah 64:6. We have all become like one who is unclean,
and all our righteous deeds are like a filthy cloth.
We all fade like a leaf,
and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away. (NRSV [and many others similarl]y)

We have here an unregenerate Jew writing about unregenerate Jews and what they have become—NOT what they had been before in their natural state.

Galatians 5:16. Live by the Spirit, I say, and do not gratify the desires of the flesh.
17. For what the flesh desires is opposed to the Spirit, and what the Spirit desires is opposed to the flesh; for these are opposed to each other, to prevent you from doing what you want.
18. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not subject to the law. (NRSV)

We have here, as in Romans 7:14-25, the unregenerate Jew under the Law being unable to do what he really wants to do. But if we are led by the spirit, we are NOT subject to the Law and the inabilities that it causes.

20ἡμῶν γὰρ τὸ πολίτευμα ἐν οὐρανοῖς ὑπάρχει, ἐξ οὗ καὶ σωτῆρα ἀπεκδεχόμεθα κύριον Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν, 21ὃς μετασχηματίσει τὸ σῶμα τῆς ταπεινώσεως ἡμῶν σύμμορφον τῷ σώματι τῆς δόξης αὐτοῦ κατὰ τὴν ἐνέργειαν τοῦ δύνασθαι αὐτὸν καὶ ὑποτάξαι αὐτῷ τὰ πάντα. (NA28)

Philippians 3:20. But our citizenship is in heaven, and it is from there that we are expecting a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.
21. He will transform the body of our humiliation that it may be conformed to the body of his glory, by the power that also enables him to make all things subject to himself. (NRSV)

The Greek word ταπείνωσις translated in the KJV as “vile” does not express the concepts of sin or sinfulness anywhere in the New Testament or in any other early Christian literature. This abominable error in the KJV was one of the reasons why it was deemed necessary to officially revise the KJV. The New Testament portion was revised first and republished in May, 1881 with a new title page reading,

THE HOLY BIBLE CONTIANING THE OLD AND NEWTSTAMENTS TRANSLATED OUT OF THE ORIGINAL TONGUES: BEING THE VERSION SET FORTH A.D. 1611 COMPARED WITH THE MOST ANCIENT AUTHORITES AND REVISED.

Philippians 3:20-21, in the Revised Version reads,

Philippians 3:20. For our citizenship is in heaven; whence also we wait for a Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21. who shall fashion anew the body of our humiliation, that it may be conformed to the body of his glory, according to the working whereby he is able even to subject all things unto himself.

 

Here is the biblical doctrine. All humans since Adam, are conceived in iniquity, made sinners, as a consequence of Adam's sin. But where we Baptists are divided is the extent of the corruption. Can the lost understand "spiritual milk" as indicated by 1 Corinthians 3:1, or does "the things" of 1 Corinthians 2:14 actually mean "all things."

Most of the supporters of "all things" ignore the implied capability in 1 Corinthians 3:1, and simply act like "the things" means "all the things."

Thus the claim there is no "goodness" (read inability to seek God and trust in Christ) in natural (lost) people.

The falsity of the premise is proclaimed by the very verses cited.

1) With my mind am serving the Law. Romans 7:5

2) With those in accord with the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. Romans 8:5 Here the lexicon indicates "accord" refers to those who have set their minds not on the flesh, but have separated from that condition and are exhibiting things of the Spirit.

3) Galatians 5:17 is addressing born anew believers, created for "good" works, thus having goodness within them.

4) Proverbs 16:6, by reverence for the Lord one keeps away from evil. The OT believers in God could fear God, not wanting to offend Him, thus having reverence for Him. More goodness on display within the non-regenerate.

 

The context shows two kinds of men.

One is born of the spirit and is able to know the things of God:

12 But we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God; that we might know the things that were freely given to us of God.

The other is the natural man, void of the spirit, and is unable to discern the things of the spirit of God (John 3:3), in fact they're foolishness to him (1 Corinthians 1:18):

14 Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

Here's that verse in OUR English, easily understandable, from the NKJV-
To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David the servant of the Lord.

36 An oracle within my heart concerning the transgression of the wicked:
There is no fear of God before his eyes.

 

Off track KY, you have read into the text what you want t o find.

Just as a person’s own spirit knows what is going on inside that person, so only the Spirit of God knows what is going on within God. This does not mean that man can not know the truths that God has made plain for all to see or hear. God has provided many ways for man to know about Him whether creation, the gospel message or the conviction of the Holy Spirit. So while the natural man can not know the mind of God he can know the truths of God regarding salvation. We see this clearly in Act_13:46-48 The Jews and Gentiles heard the gospel message preached by Paul & Barnabas but while the Jews rejected the message some of the Gentiles were over joyed and trusted in Christ.

 

Not.

The context shows two kinds of men.

One is born of the spirit and is able to know the things of God:

12 But we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God; that we might know the things that were freely given to us of God.

The other is the natural man, void of the spirit, and is unable to discern the things of the spirit of God (John 3:3), in fact they're foolishness to him (1 Corinthians 1:18):

14 Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

17 And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments. Mt 19

18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good save one, even God. Mk 10

19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, even God. Lu 18

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd layeth down his life for the sheep. Jn 10

 

Lol, that's 'essential Vanology', alter the text to get the desired effect.

 

Where do you see "total inability" in that text? The natural man may not understand the things of God he can still understand enough to trust in God and be saved at which timer he will be able to understand more through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Eph 1:13

 

Lol, really? He cannot know them, he cannot discern them, it's foolishness to him. I see it. You refuse to see it.

 

So according to your logic there is no need to preach the gospel as none can understand it and be saved.

Our Message in Ministry
Lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. (2Co_4:4-5)
The enemy of men's souls wants to keep perishing people in spiritual blindness. "But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe." (2Co_4:3-4). This counterfeit god is working on all unbelievers (even as he formerly did with us). "In which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" (Eph_2:2). His influence is so extensive. He works through every system (political, economic, educational, etc.) within the unbelieving world. "The whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one" (1Jo_5:19). The primary purpose of Satan's blinding activities is to keep those in darkness from seeing God's light: "Lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them."
Into this dark and blinded world, we come with the message of light: "the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ." Only the light of Jesus can overcome spiritual man. Our Lord proclaimed this wondrous remedy. "I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life" (Joh_8:12). When the light of Jesus shines into man's darkness, it brings liberating life from God. Paul was sent out with this great gospel: "To open their eyes and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God" (Act_26:18).
We are also sent out as vessels of light. "You are the light of the world" (Mat_5:14). We are light, because Jesus (the true light) lives in, and can shine through, each of us. "For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light" (Eph_5:8). We can show forth our Lord in deed and in word. As we follow Jesus, His glorious light shines through us. As we speak of Jesus, we declare His glorious majesty.
Remember, the light of the gospel is about the glory of Jesus: "The light of the gospel of the glory of Christ." Our message is not about us. "For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake." We are but His servants. He is our message. He is the Lord over all. Thus, He is able to save from all that blinds and binds. {Day by Day by Grace Bob Hoekstra}

 

1 Corinthians 2:12 (NASB)
Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God.​

Here that we may know the solid food spiritual things freely given to us by God.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (NASB)
But a natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. ​

Here does not accept the solid food spiritual things of the Spirit of God

Both verses are consistent contextually with 1 Corinthians 3:1-3. where those you have not learned from their indwelt Spirit, either because they are not indwelt or have not been indwelt very long, are unable to understand spiritual solid food. But those not indwelt or have not been indwelt very long can understand spiritual milk.

 

Notice how the "taint so" folks ignore 1 Corinthians 3:1-3 and claim the idea that men of flesh and newly reborn Christians cannot understand spiritual solid food but can understand spiritual milk.
And the beat goes on...

 

These are 'babes in Christ', not the natural man void of the spirit as in 1 Corinthians 2:12-14.

1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, as unto babes in Christ. 1 Cor 3

 

How many times are you going to nullify "but as unto carnal," and not address the truth of scripture. Your doctrine is unbiblical, false, and without merit.

Paul spoke using spiritual milk to new Christians just as he spoke to men of flesh (unregenerates). Deal with it, don't hide from God's truth.

 

The truth of scripture is that Christians can be carnal.

 

Showing your ignorance, again.

And this is your stupid logic, not mine.

Scripture says He cannot know them, he cannot discern them, it's foolishness to him, not me.

 

More nullification, more nonsense.

[indent'] "Paul had to speak to them as he would to men wholly natural, inasmuch as they are still carnal (1Co 3:3) in many respects, notwithstanding their conversion (1Co 1:4-9)." [/indent]

One of the efforts to nullify 1 Corinthians 3:1 (as to men of flesh) is to claim the meaning in the verse is different from the meaning of 1 Corinthians 2:14. The nullifiers point to the fact two different Greek words are used, and then claim they mean different things.

In 1 Corinthians 2:14 the Greek word translated "natural" is psychikos (G5591) and is translated four times by the NASB as "natural" and footnoted as "unspiritual" two times. However, the same word is also translated as "worldly minded" in Jude 1:19. Here the actual intended meaning is explained by the following phrase, not having the Spirit! The the actual historical meaning in all five verses is therefore "unspiritual" (not having the indwelt Spirit).

Now in 1 Corinthians 3:1 the Greek word translated as "men of flesh" is "sarkinos" (G4560) and is translated as "fleshly" but the contextual contrast with spiritual people requires that the intended meaning refers to unspiritual people, not yet under the influence of the of God's Spirit.

Next in 1 Corinthians 3:3 the Greek word translated also as "fleshly" is "sarkikos" (4559) and refers to those not governed by the Spirit of God.

Thus in both cases (1 Corinthians 2:14 and 1 Corinthians 3:1) the idea is that the people are not governed by the Spirit of God, whether unregenerate (not being indwelt) or newly regenerate (not having learned from their indwelt Spirit)

 

You are acting like a child again KY. Your philosophy does not fit into the biblical context so you lash out with dumb comments. Your logic is flawed but you will not see it has been determined for you to misunderstand scripture.

 

In many of your posts, you use the expression, “the actual historical meaning” but there is no such thing! Furthermore, the meaning that matters in interpreting the words in the Bible is how they are used in the contexts in which they are found. We have today the fruit of 70 years of cataloging and analyzing each and every word in the Greek New Testament and other early Christian literature to determine its meaning in each context in which it is used, and that is the BDAG—and yet your posts totally ignore it! For more detailed analysis, we have the TDNT—and yet your posts totally ignore it also! It is perfectly fine to share ones opinions, but to state them as facts and as though every other opinion is ridiculously wrong is not fine.