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Romans 8:8

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Jun 13, 2024.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    NASB
    and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

    Here we have the ambiguous phrase "in the flesh" and therefore we have folks who weaponize the ambiguity to push false claims. Does "in the flesh" always refer to the same condition? Nope. Our incarnate Christ was "in the flesh" yet God was "well pleased."

    So how is this phrase used? First, one usage is to refer to our physical life, even when spiritually born anew. Thus believers can be "in the flesh" (physically alive) and please God. (Philemon 1:16)

    A second usage is found in Romans 8:6-8:
    NASB
    For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
    because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

    Here we see "in the flesh" refers to those whose mind is set on worldly or fleshly desires, rather than spiritual desires. So "in the flesh" refers to anyone whose mind is set on sinfulness.

    This view is also presented in 1 Peter 4:2:
    NASB
    so as to live the rest of the time in the flesh no longer for human lusts, but for the will of God.

    Thus to be "in the flesh" refers to both having the capacity to live according to human lusts or to live according to the will of God. Thus, even after being born anew, we have Limited Autonomous Will.

    In summary Romans 8:8 refers to those whose mind is set on human lusts, and therefore cannot please God.
     
    #1 Van, Jun 13, 2024
  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Did you intentionally not give the number (8) of this verse and leave off the very next verse which clearly answers your question?

    9 But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you. But if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Ro 8

    It's synonymous with 1 Corinthians 2:12-14 where 'the natural man' is very clearly void of the Spirit.
     
    #2 kyredneck, Jun 13, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2024
  3. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    Show me a dead man that has a will?... Brother Glen:)

    Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

    2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

    3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
     
    #3 tyndale1946, Jun 13, 2024
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  4. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    The OP is synonymous with 1 Corinthians 2:12-14 where 'the natural man' is very clearly void of the Spirit:

    Compare:
    7 because the mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be:
    8 and they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
    9 But ye are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you. But if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Ro 8

    With:
    12 But we received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is from God; that we might know the things that were freely given to us of God.
    13 Which things also we speak, not in words which man`s wisdom teacheth, but which the Spirit teacheth; combining spiritual things with spiritual words.
    14 Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor 2


    12 ...we received....the spirit which is from God; that we might know,,,.
    14 ...the natural man...,cannot know...because they are spiritually discerned.
     
    #4 kyredneck, Jun 13, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2024
  5. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Yes he
    yes … yes he did! :Laugh
     
    #5 Earth Wind and Fire, Jun 13, 2024
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  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Re: Romans 8:8 . . . εν σαρκι . . . . " in flesh " is being translated as " in the flesh " and in verse 9.
     
    #6 37818, Jun 13, 2024
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Please do not waste time posting your obvious off topic nonsense.
     
    #7 Van, Jun 13, 2024
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Once again the bogus claim is made that to be spiritually dead means unable to believe. This redefinition of the meaning of the phrase is just another effort by false teachers to read into vague or ambiguous words and phrases their man-made doctrine.
     
    #8 Van, Jun 13, 2024
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Notice the rewrite of John 3:16, whoever can believe into Him, but no lost person can, will not perish. Pay no attention to the dark ages relic of unstudied speculation.
     
    #9 Van, Jun 13, 2024
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    There are cases where "in the flesh" is a translation of "en ho sarx" thus with an included article. But their a many cases where "en sarx" is translated as "in the flesh" even though the Greek did not use an article.

    To claim this distinction influences the usage or contextual meaning is not valid.
     
    #10 Van, Jun 14, 2024
  11. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Well now, aren’t you precious.:D
     
    #11 Earth Wind and Fire, Jun 14, 2024
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  12. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    <------------------------------------------------->
     
    #12 kyredneck, Jun 14, 2024
  13. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    If we follow your view then show me a dead man that can sin or for that matter do anything.

    Calvinists jump on this verse like a duck on a June-bug. But then tend to ignore the following verses. Why? Perhaps because it shows up the failed logic they want to promote.

    As Paul points out we were all once there but when we trusted in the promises of God we were made alive in Christ.

    Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
    Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
    Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
     
    #13 Silverhair, Jun 14, 2024
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Once again a naysayer addresses me and runs away from the topic. Go figure

    Did I say the natural man was saved, indwelt, or able to understand the solid food things of the Spirit of God? Nope
     
    #14 Van, Jun 15, 2024
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