1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Layman's Understanding of Biblical Doctrine

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Jun 14, 2024.

  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,745
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Of God and the Holy Trinity – One God in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19

    Of God's Decree- God before creation chose to bring about creation for the purpose of creating mankind for His glory, Isaiah 43:7

    Of Creation –In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, Genesis 1:1

    Of Divine Providence – God made everything and sustains everything and brings about the conditions useful for His purpose of creation, including altering the course of human events by intervention, Colossians 1:17; Deuteronomy 30:19.

    Of the Fall of Man, of Sin, and of the punishment thereof – Adam volitionally sinned, knowing God said not to eat of the fruit of the tree of good and evil. This resulted in Adam being separated from God, i.e. kicked out of the garden, and his corruption, i.e. his eyes were opened. Genesis 3:7; 17-24

    Of God's Covenant – God’s eternal covenant was to provide eternal life for those of His choosing, based on crediting their faith as righteousness, keeping His covenant of love. James 2:5

    Of Christ the Mediator – Jesus is our mediator, our high priest who sacrificed Himself, becoming the propitiation for the whole world, interceding for those given to Him, taking whatever was against us out of the way. Hebrews 9:11-15

    Of Free Will – We make plans but God directs our steps, thus God allows us autonomous thoughts and actions, but only so far as He allows. He can and does intervene and restrict our options, such as hardening hearts to cause some to continue to reject Christ for a time. Proverbs 16:9, Romans 11:7

    Of Effectual Calling – I deny the doctrine of Irresistible Grace, men of flesh, unless hardened, can hear and understand and respond to the milk of the gospel, 1 Corinthians 2:14 – 3:3.

    Of Justification – refers to being made “right” with God, thus our “sin burden” is removed. This occurs when we are spiritually placed in Christ, and undergo the circumcision of Christ, Romans 5:18, Colossians 2:11.

    Of Adoption – Our adoption refers to being made physical children of God when we are bodily resurrected at Christ’s second coming, Romans 8:23.

    Of Sanctification – Salvation is presented in scripture as having three phrases, Positional Sanctification referring to when we are set apart in Christ 2 Thessalonians 2:13; Progressive Sanctification, referring to our life after being put in Christ where we strive to become more Christ like, 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8, and Ultimate Sanctification, our Adoption at His second coming, 1 Thessalonians 5:23.

    Of Saving Faith - Faith God credits as righteousness, being from the heart, fully committed and devoted to Christ, having more to do with our love of Christ than believing the right doctrines, Romans 4:4-5; 24.

    Of Repentance unto Life and Salvation – God grants repentance via His revelatory grace, i.e. providing us with an understanding of God’s perfection and our sins and their consequences. When we repent we give glory to God. 2 Timothy 2:24-26; Revelation 16:9.

    Of Good Works – Before salvation, all our “good works” are as filthy rags to God, but upon being born anew, created for good works, we can earn eternal rewards if we build upon the foundation of Christ according to His will, Isaiah 64:6; Ephesians 2:10.

    Of the Perseverance of the Saints – Once born anew, we cannot undo. 1 Peter 1:3-5.

    Of the Assurance of Grace and Salvation – If we have been born anew, our life changes, and we exhibit the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Thus, when we meet for communion, we are to examine ourselves to see if we are of the faith, and if our heart does not convict us, we are to take the bread and the wine in remembrance of our Savior, 2 Corinthians 13:5-6.

    Of the Law of God – Under the Old Covenant, under the Law of Moses, the Law acted as a tutor, leading us to a knowledge of our sins and our need of a Savior, Galatians 3:24. Once born again, under the Law of Christ (also Called the Law of Liberty) we are to strive to follow Christ, and keep His commandments, 1 Corinthians 9:21. Primarily, we are to love God with all our heart, mind and soul, and love our neighbors as ourselves, Matthew 22:36-40.

    Of the Gospel and the Extent of Grace thereof – The only unpardonable sin is to reject Christ. Other than that, God will forgive your sins and remember them no more forever. Ephesians 1:7

    Of Christian Liberty and Liberty of Conscience – As ambassadors of Christ we are to be His witness to the world, thus being careful to not be a stumbling block to others. Romans 14:20-23

    Of Religious Worship and the Sabbath Day – The Law of Moses has gone away, and with it the requirement to keep the Sabbath, but we are to set apart a time for worship and reflection, and study and meditation, and Sundays are used by many Christians. 2 Corinthians 3:2-11

    Of Lawful Oaths and Vows – We are not to swear by God or anything else. Matthew 5:34

    Of the Civil Magistrate – God has established governance, and so we are to submit provided that in doing so would not result in violating a clear command of God. In the military the concept is known as following “lawful” orders. No massacring women and children because the officer said so. Romans 13:1-2

    Of Marriage - Marriage is the union of a man and a woman, both committed to Christ. Ephesians 5:22-33

    Of the Church – Church refers to either the local temporal assembly of professing believers, made up of both wheat and tares, or to the general assembly, the bride and body of Christ, made up of all who have been born again. Hebrews 12:23 and Matthew 13:30

    Of the Communion of Saints – When we, believers, gather together we are to remember our indebtedness to Christ who gave his body, broken for us, and his blood, shed for us, and to examine ourselves to see if we are of the faith. 1 Corinthians 11:23-34

    Of Baptism – Christ using the agency of the Holy Spirit, baptizes us to the body of Christ spiritually, and then seals us in Christ with the Holy Spirit. Christ commanded we illustrate this spiritual baptism, and make a public declaration of our faith in Christ, thus we are to be water baptized and water baptize all who profess faith in Christ . Matthew 28:19

    Of the State of Man after Death, and of the Resurrection of the Dead – When we physically die, our spirit/soul departs and goes either to heaven to be present with the Lord, or to Hades to suffer torment and await the resurrection of the dead. At the great white throne judgment, all the spirits in Hades will be reunited with physical bodies and be gathered for judgment. There names, not being found in the Lamb’s book of life, they are put into the Lake of Fire where they suffer and die the second death. Revelation 20:14-15

    Of the Last Judgment – Those of us whose spirits go to be with the Lord, are also united with our glorified physical bodies at Christ’s second coming, and we are judged, with Christ awarding rewards for faithful service if we have built upon the foundation of Christ with material of eternal value, i.e. helped save lives. 1 Corinthians 3:14-15
     
    #1 Van, Jun 14, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2024
  2. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    451
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This can be understood as being UNORTHODOX, and it does not really define the Eternal Godhead!

    It can indeed teach "subordinationism" in the Godhead, which is RANK HERESY!
     
  3. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2018
    Messages:
    5,983
    Likes Received:
    1,364
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I agree with the above, but I also see from the Scriptures that Adam's eyes were opened to the difference between good and evil, and mankind because and since Adam's sin, grew to love it...we have closed our collective "eyes" ( minds and hearts ) to God ( Romans 1:18-32, Romans 3:10-18 ) and refuse to open them to Him.
    Or for all of a person's life, Van.
    Have you not read that God makes vessels of wrath and vessels of mercy?

    He has mercy and compassion on whom He wills, and reserves for everlasting punishment those He has not given to His Son to save ( John 3:18, John 17:2, Romans 9:3-23, John 6:39-65, 1 Corinthians 2:14, 2 Corinthians 4:3-4, 1 Peter 2:7-8, 2 Peter 2:12, Jude 1:8-13 ).
    God tells His people in His word...
    That no man can come to the Son unless it is given to them to do so, by the Father ( John 6:35-65 ).

    That grace is only extended to His elect, and is affirmed by His word given to us through His prophets and apostles.
     
    #3 Dave G, Jun 14, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2024
  4. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2018
    Messages:
    5,983
    Likes Received:
    1,364
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The only unpardonable sin is the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost, which the Lord tells is up-front in His word:
    " Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
    And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come. "
    ( Matthew 12:31-32 ).

    All the rest can and are forgiven to those in Christ...even their previous unbelief and their struggles with it after their conversion.
    A person's faith in the finished work of Christ does not save them in the eternal sense;
    Their faith is instead the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not sen ( Hebrews 11:1 ).

    It is the outward manifestation of the inner working of God to and for His children.
    A believer's good works are the evidence that God is working in them...
    Those works are wrought in God ( John 3:21 ), and because it is He that works in and through them both to will and to do of His good pleasure ( Philippians 2:13 ).

    They are the fruit of the Spirit manifested in them ( Galatians 5:22-24 ).
    Marriage is also the union of a man and woman ( saved or not ) by God, and He regards that union as a permanent lifetime union ( Mark 10:2-12 ).
     
    #4 Dave G, Jun 14, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2024
  5. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2018
    Messages:
    5,983
    Likes Received:
    1,364
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Finally,

    There is no "clergy / laity" distinction in the body of Christ; the term "layman" comes from men, and not God.
    Among God's children there are "offices" and gifts given by the Spirit to profit the body, but God Himself in no way classifies His precious children as above or below one another in spiritual stature ( Matthew 20:25-28, Mark 9:33-35 ).

    Respectfully speaking,
    The use of the term "layman" is not applicable to us as believers because it necessitates and divides God's elect into "upper class" and "lower class";
    These things should not be so, as it is the doctrine of the Nicolaitains... which the Lord Jesus hates.


    Please read and consider these things that I've written above, sir.
     
    #5 Dave G, Jun 14, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2024
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,745
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Folks, once again a naysayer has nothing to say but suggests "taint so." :)

    Here is the orthodox belief of the Trinity:

    Of God and the Holy Trinity – One God in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19
     
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,745
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Fallen people are predisposed to sin, but they know about God (Romans 1:19) and all people have not shut their eyes to God. The second, third and fourth soils of Matthew 13 attest to this truth that Calvinism denies.

     
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,745
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This is an errant view. The "blasphemy" against the Holy Spirit is to claim or believe Jesus performed His miracles by the power of the Devil (whatever name is used). Thus a rejection of the fact Jesus performed His miracles by the power of God thus demonstrating His gospel was true.
     
  9. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    451
    Faith:
    Baptist
    When dealing with the most Fundamental Doctrine in the Holy Bible, The Trinity, the language used must be absolutely precise.

    To make sure what we say cannot be understood as the two great heresies, Modalism, which denied the Eternal distinction of the Three Persons in the Eternal Godhead; and Subordinationism, that teaches that The Father is "Fons Deitatis", and that both Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are not coequal with the Father, not only in "Person", but also in their Essential Nature, or Essence. This later heresy is very much believed in some form by many "Evangelicals" today!

    You rightly quote Matthew 28:19 for the Bible Teaching on the Trinity. However, for the purpose of theology, simply quoting this verse is by no means enough. Detailed explanation is required to show exactly what Jesus means here.

    The Greek here is very important:

    "βαπτίζοντες αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος"

    Literally, "baptizing them into the Name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit"

    In the first placed we have the clear distinction of the Three Persons, which is clear from the use of the definite article before each noun, "τοῦ πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος". This destroys the heresy of Unitarianism, which falsely teaches that the Godhead is only One Person, the Father.

    In the second place, Jesus says that we are to baptize "into the Name" (εἰς τὸ ὄνομα), and uses the singular "ὄνομα", and not the plural, "ὀνόματα". This is of great importance, and the Three distinct Persons have the One Common Name. This can only be the Majestic Name that God gave to Moses in Exodus 3,

    "And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And He said, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'" Moreover God said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: 'The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My Name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations" (14-15)

    The Name here is "YHWH", which is "the Eternal Self-Existing God, the Giver of all life, the Creator of all things"

    This makes the Three distinct Persons in the Eternal Godhead, 100% COEQUAL, COETERNAL AND COESSENTIAL.
     
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,745
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Is the orthodox presentation of the Trinity Doctrine "absolutely precise?" Nope

    Here again is the orthodox doctrine of the Trinity: One God in three Persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

    Does this presentation advocate God the Father is the "Fount of Deity?" Nope

    Does this presentation advocate that God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are not equal in divine essence. Nope

    Did the OP present a detailed discussion of the doctrinal beliefs listed? Nope

    Did the presentation suggest the Godhead was comprised of only one Person? Nope

    Does the Greek grammar imply the three Persons have only one name? Nope! Actually the word "name" is used not to refer to the Person's identity, but to their combined directive as found in scripture. Do this because it reflects the will and directives of the Trinity.

    Finally, the Trinity doctrine does indicate all three Persons or "Co-eternal" in that none were created or produced by another Person of the Trinity. Ditto for Co-essential if the meaning is equal in divine essence.. However, to suggest the Persons are equal to each other and each Person gives and receives direction for all the same activities, misses the mark. Note in the Trinity Triangle "not equal" signs appear between the Persons of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
     
    #10 Van, Jun 16, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2024
  11. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    451
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You still can't grasp it! :eek:
     
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,745
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yet another logical fallacy, an against the person change of subject. Fiddlesticks.
     
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,745
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
  14. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,745
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
  15. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,454
    Likes Received:
    451
    Faith:
    Baptist
    HERESY!
     
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,745
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    SavedbyGrace likes to post claims to disparage but lacks a willingness or ability to support the false claims. Go figure

    Each Person of the Trinity is distinct. Thus not equal in every way, but equal in having no beginning or end, and equal in essence, all 100% God. The heresy would be to claim God in three identical Persons, rather than in three distinct Persons..
     
    #16 Van, Jun 16, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2024
  17. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,745
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Of Saving Faith - Faith God credits as righteousness, being from the heart, fully committed and devoted to Christ, having more to do with our love of Christ than believing the right doctrines, Romans 4:4-5; 24.

    How many have heard a sermon on this doctrine?
     
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,745
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Here is a typical claim concerning "saving faith:"
    saving faith, not our works, is the only thing that can save us, not because it is inherently worthy but because by faith we lay hold of Christ’s work and thus receive his perfect suffering and obedience as the means by which we are saved.​

    Note "we lay hold" suggests our action results in our salvation. Nonsense. It is God alone who decides whether or not our our faith will be credited as righteousness.
     
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,745
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Many are invited but few are chosen is a well know truth of scripture. The logical necessity of we must hear with understanding to be invited, and therefore we must be physically alive and have understood the gospel's invitation before we were chosen escapes all those who believe we were individually chosen before creation. So just as 2 Thessalonians 2:13 teaches we were chosen through faith in the truth, Matthew 22:14 teaches the same truth.

    Now I suppose it is possible some Calvinists will claim God foresaw the foreseen individuals would hear and understand the gospel, but would reject it, and then be chosen without foreseen faith. Such is the absurdity of Calvinism.

    But if we return to reality, we have many invited, with understanding, such as soils 2, 3, and 4 of Matthew 13, but few, only soil 4 are chosen.
     
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    28,745
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Baptist
    When Romans 4:24 says we will also benefit from having our faith credited as righteousness, the idea is that we believe "on" the one who raised Jesus from the dead. This of course refers to the Trinity, because more than one Person of the Trinity was involved in His resurrection. To believe "on" refers to the person and attributes of the person in which we believe, such as Jesus is God, Jesus is Christ, and Jesus is our Savior, sent by God the Father, and who performed miracles with the power of God the Holy Spirit.
     
Loading...