Principles for Recovery.

I think the whole "recovery" movement is a capitulation to unbiblical psychology. The Bible does not use that framework and I am wondering why we should. The Bible talks about those who used to be one thing and are now another. I think we ought to stick with that.

I think Warren's use of the beatitudes is a prima facie case of his abominable exegesis. Most of those comments are completely unrelated to the beatitude in question.

I am just not sure we need to go down this road.

 

So Larry,

What is your program for dealing with addiction. Tell them once they are saved they are no longer addicts. If I came to you and confessed my addiction to alcohol, or cigarettes, or pornography, or crack cocaine, what would you tell me to do?

What drove me away from AA was that while it was successful in keeping us away from alcohol it never addressed the real problem in our souls. Celebrate recovery does.

 

While I agree with you PASTOR Larry, I must add my 2 cents worth.
It is a fact of history that Bill W. (one of the founders of A.A.) stated catagorically that he denies the Deity of Christ Jesus.(See The Big Book of A.A.,"Bill's Story")
Given that fact, I fail to see how any "christian" in their right mind would/could marry the 12 Steps of A.A. with Christ.
Can two walk together except they be agreed? Is Christ married to Belial?
'Nuff said.

In HIS service;
Jim

 

Is this the same Rick Warren of "Purpose Driven" infamy? If so, then for me and my house, there is nothing that man has that we need.
In HIS service;
Jim

 

Thank God there are still people like Rick Warren and churches who support programs like celebrate recover. People who are willing to reach out to those held in bondage by their sin.

Luke 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

My experience is that the most powerful force holding people in their sins is not a miss applied 12 step program but Pharisees in the church who would cast them out if their sins become known. This prevents them from confessing their sins and they try to keep them hidden. This of course results in unconfessed, unforgiven sins that eat away the hearts of men.

 

Jim:

I completely understand your desire to separate from Rick Warren and from AA. While I disagree with you, I understand your motivation and have great respect for it.

But that leaves the same question that I asked Larry. What do you do to help addicts recover? Or does that not happen in your church or your family?

 

I did not realize this was a continuation from another thread. I went and read it and checked out the other links for programs to help addiction. Some looked ok, but I like celebrate recovery. That is what we use. I know the 12 steps of AA also works well, it all depends on how it is applied and led.

 

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We usually refer them to Lester Roloff ministries. Then when they come home, we nurture them in the Word of God.
Works for us.

In HIS service;
Jim

 

Biblically, we should deal with addictions as worship disorders. An addict is worshipping something other than God and must confess and repent from his idolatry. Along the way, he will need ongoing accountability, fellowship, and Bible study. He may need a live in program to for a period of time. But to put it in terms of 12 steps or 8 steps has no biblical basis and in fact undermines the biblical basis for change which is absolute worship of and submission to God alone.

Ed Welch has an excellent book on addictions entitled Addictions: Banquet in a Grave. It is a must read for anyone who wants to deal biblically with addictions. Too often, we are encouraging the wrong kind of change and while that brings temporal, physical results, it does not bring spiritual results. That is why AA is a no-no for Christians. Welch's book Blame it on the Brain? has a great section on AA outlining some of the problems with it.

 

Thanks Jim and Larry,

I am glad that you are trying to help those around you. To often I have found pastors and church leaders who want to condemn other methods but are not doing anything themselves to help. I have always hoped that my churches could be a refuge for those the others have cast out. It is easy for me to remember that I am like them and I am afraid many preachers have forgotten.

Sorry if I got a little defensive on this issue, it's close to home.

 

Sorry if I got a little defensive on this issue, it's close to home.
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Me, too! I will celebrate 14 years clean and sober on Feb 12,'05. Some of those years were in being decieved by A.A., thinking one could marry Christ with a clearly anti-christ message.
Yes, this issue hits VERY close to home. My wife is a L.A.C. and deals with the delicate balance of the State's requirments and her Christian faith. This is a highly emotional issue for many. but it need not be overshadowed by such emotions. Scripture and reason should always be our guide. (In THAT order, BTW)

In HIS service;
Jim

 

Your right Jim, scripture should be our guide. I have been sober since June 12, 1993 so you have me by only a couple years.

AA was a help to me years ago, but the chapters I went to were led by godly men who used scripture and made no excuses for any higher power other than Jesus Christ. It is sad that while many have cleaned up their lives and left alcohol behind their souls are still lost in sin.

Another issue that relates to AA is court ordered attendance. I have known several men who had to attend step programs as a condition of their parole or suspended sentences. Because AA is at its core a religious philosophy this really becomes the state sponsorship and endorsement of a religion.

 

Is there a book for Celebrate Recovery??? Very interested in what this is about.

 

I am not really familiar with Celebrate Recovery.I am sure it is similar to R/U.

Pastor Larry,
Although I agree with you that addictions are worship disorders, we must look at the effects of addiction. People become enslaved and God seems afar off to them. Many feel that God doesn't want anything to do with them.

A good Christian addictions program is like the Intensive Care unit for the soul. Many of these people will not come to formal services for fear of being judged or they don't have the clothes.

These meetings are casual and in the evenings. Birds of a feather flock together. When they are around others with the same issues they are more comfortable. I have found that when these folks see that there are Christians in the program that they start to see that we are not perfect either.

All that is done is that questions are answered biblically, We discuss how God blesses our lives, we teach total reliance on God to take away our sins(including our addictions)

The first thing that happens is a no pressure approach to salvation that could take a few weeks of comming. Once saved God can help them. He wouldn't before because they werent His. From this point people are taught to rely on Jesus through faith for deliverance.

We become a bridge from the world to the Church. R/U actually boasts a cure from addictions, not continual recovery.

Jesus not only saves, He delivers!! The folks in R/U actually graduate the program and the church becomes the support group as it is for all of us.

 

I would stronlgy encourage you to read Welch's book, Blame it on the Brain? and Addictions: Banquet in a Grave. I think we are unfortunately far from the biblical model in most of these things.

 

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How true Tent guy!
There are actual court cases where this has been challenged, and the plaintifs have won their cases. It IS State sanctioned religion. For info about these court cases, go visit International Addictions Ministries. He has a web-stie. As to the OP, I know nothing about this C/R program. If it has anything to do with A.A.'s 12 Steps, then it is just ANOTHER attempt to marry Christ with Belial.

I suggest that before one spouts the "great benefit" of incorporating A.A. into the church, one should do his research into the origin of A.A.

FYI, go to any A.A. meeting and ask for these two books. They are only about $5-6 each. Read them thoroughly, with Bible in hand, and THEN ( and ONLY then) will you understand my concerns.

A.A., The Big Book
A.A. Comes of Age

In HIS service;
Jim

 

Having had a spiritual experience as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others, and practice these principles in all our affairs.
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Two words.

WORKS SALVATION!!!

Can you not see the problem???

In HIS service;
Jim

 

Posted by Pastor Larry:I would stronlgy encourage you to read Welch's book, Blame it on the Brain? and Addictions: Banquet in a Grave. I think we are unfortunately far from the biblical model in most of these things.

Why do people like you always refer people that just defended their position in a biblical way to other mens books?

What is biblically wrong with my post 1/19/05?