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Unsound Doctrine

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Aug 26, 2024.

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  1. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Scripture tells us "false teachers" will secretly introduce destructive heresies. Some of us will be ensnared and believe some of these teachings contrary to sound doctrine. How can we prevent or minimize these misadventures?

    First, some say we do not need to study God's word for ourselves because we are not qualified to differ from the professional translators or teachers of God's word. That view is unsound doctrine.

    Second, we are to test the teachers as some may be false prophets, appealing to our desires rather than the truth.

    Third, as obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance. Be open to the possibility that our views formulated during our immaturity might miss the mark.

    Interpretive Translation:
    1 John 4:1
    Siblings of Christ, do not believe every human, but test those claiming to speak by the Spirit, as to whether they are of God; because many pseudo-experts are out among humanity.
     
    #1 Van, Aug 26, 2024
  2. Alan Dale Gross

    Alan Dale Gross New Member

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    Is this some new thing invented that tries to give the appearance that Abraham had something called "righteous faith"?

    In other words, plain old works?

    "Abraham was not justified by works, he proves Romans 4:2, from an absurdity following upon it,
    that he would have just reason to glory; whereas no man ought to glory before God..."

    ABRAHAM was Guilty before God for HIS SIN:

    "The apostle having, in the preceding chapters, proved that there is no justification before God by the works of the law,
    partly from the depraved state and condition that all men are in by nature, both Jews and Gentiles;
    and partly from the nature of the law itself, which discovers sin, arraigns men for it, and convicts of it,
    and pronounces guilty before God for it;"

    THE FLESH:

    Romans 4:1
    "What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?"

    "did he find out the way of life, righteousness, and salvation by the mere hint of carnal reason?
    and did he obtain these things by his own strength?
    or were these acquired by his circumcision in the flesh,
    or by any other fleshly privilege he enjoyed?
    or was he justified before God by any services and performances of his, of whatsoever kind?

    Romans 4:2
    "For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God."
    For if Abraham were justified by works,.... That Abraham was not, and could not be justified by works,
    is clear from hence, that if this was his case,
    he hath whereof to glory; which will be allowed him before men, on account of his pious life and conversation:

    "but not before God"; who saw all the iniquity of his heart, and was privy to all his failings and infirmities:

    ABRAHAM WAS UNGODLY WHEN HE RECEIVED FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST FROM GOD
    WHEN GOD JUSTIFIED HIM:

    Romans 4:5
    "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly..."

    ABRAHAM HAD INIQUITIES AND SINS:

    Romans 4:7
    "Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered."


    ABRAHAM HAD TRANSGRESSED THE LAW:

    Romans 4:15
    "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."


    ABRAHAM WAS DEAD IN TRESSPASSES AND SINS WHEN GOD QUICKENED HIM IN SALVATION,
    THROUGH THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT AND GAVE HIM THE SPIRITUAL ENABLEMENT
    TO HAVE FAITH AND BELIEVE:

    Romans 4:17
    "(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,)
    before him whom he believed, even God,
    who quickeneth the dead,"



    Salvation is by Free Grace, Faith only being a recipient, and what gives all the Glory to God;

    "And this is still further argued from the effect of the law working wrath,
    which, if justification was by it, it would never do, Romans 4:15.
    The wisdom and goodness of God in giving faith, and not works, a concern in justification, are observed, Romans 4:16,
    whereby it appears to be of free grace, faith only being a recipient, and what gives all the glory to God;
    and also the promise of eternal life through justification by free grace becomes sure to all the spiritual seed;"

    "And now in the same way that he was justified, all his children, his spiritual seed, are justified,
    whether they be Jews or Gentiles; for what is said concerning the imputation of the righteousness of faith to him,
    does not concern him only, Romans 4:23, but all true believers also; whose faith is described by the object of it,

    "him that raised up Christ from the dead, that is, God the Father, Romans 4:24, who is supposed hereby to have been dead,
    and is represented as the Lord and Savior of his people; and of whom a further account is given, Romans 4:25,
    as being delivered into the hands of men, of justice, and of death, for the sins of his people,
    which he took upon him, and bore, and made satisfaction for, and as being raised again for their justification;

    "so that this is a benefit owing not to the works of men, but to what Christ has done and suffered
    in the room and stead of his people; which is what the apostle meant to bring this point unto;
    the blessed effects and consequences of which he relates in the next chapter."



     
    #2 Alan Dale Gross, Aug 26, 2024
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The fact that God credited Abraham's faith as righteousness to Abraham is not new..

    Is the claim that this action by God made Abraham righteous? Nope

    How are people made righteous? By the washing of regeneration also called the circumcision of Christ.

    Where and when are people made righteous? When people are spiritually transferred into Christ, they then undergo the washing of regeneration as they are made alive together with Christ.

    The rest of your copy and paste post was off topic unsound doctrine.
     
    #3 Van, Aug 27, 2024
  4. Alan Dale Gross

    Alan Dale Gross New Member

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    What happened to this:
    ?

    Where did "righteous faith" go?

    What is that?

    Why didn't you say, "God credited Abraham's righteous faith"?

    That unsound doctrine just popped up and popped away.

    I wonder what would happen if you tried to figure out why God had to Quicken Abraham from the dead...

    And I hate to admit it, before I put you on 'ignore' again where you belong in this new account, but what you are saying here is actually just as true as it can be; the rest of my post was completely off the topic of unsound doctrine. Good catch.
     
    #4 Alan Dale Gross, Aug 27, 2024
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Since Abraham's faith was credited as righteousness, the result is that God designated Abraham's credited faith as righteous faith. Romans 4:5

    This is not rocket science...
     
    #5 Van, Aug 27, 2024
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Interpretive Translation:
    1 John 4:1
    Siblings of Christ, do not believe every human, but test those claiming to speak by the Spirit, as to whether they are of God; because many pseudo-experts are out among humanity.

    One method of testing to see if someone, claiming to be presenting the truth of scripture, is a pseudo-expert, is to study his or her citations to see if they actually say what is claimed.

    For example, from post #2, lets review:

    1) Is the fact that God credits the faith of some individuals as righteousness actually a fiction because that would be a "works" based salvation?

    Answer: Nope.

    Romans 4:13 NASB
    For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.

    Thus to receive the promise is not from the works of the Law, but by having a faith like Abraham's, which is our faith when credited as righteousness. Does our faith merit or earn God's mercy? Nope, Romans 9:16. He is the one who credits our faith, as worthless as it may be, as righteousness, turning a sow's ear into a silk purse.

    2) Did Abraham receive faith, or was "his faith" credited as righteousness?

    Answer: Abraham's faith was credited as righteousness, so he received the credit but not his faith.

    Romans 4:5 NASB
    But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
     
    #6 Van, Aug 27, 2024
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    When we examine ourselves, and verify that we are indwelt with the Spirit of Christ, what do we use as evidence. Are we frequently convicted of short-comings, where we need to alter our behavior. If we are satisfied with our lives, that is not evidence of listening to our "Helper" but may be evidence we have through foolish pride, quenched the Spirit. 2 Corinthians 13:5.
     
    #7 Van, Aug 27, 2024
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    1 Thessalonians 5:20 tells us to not scoff at, or reject, or treat with contempt the prophecies of God. And of course, those are found in the Word of God, so a significant corollary is to diligently consider God's word and treat it with great respect. If we have read into scripture more than what is actually said, or less than what is actually said, we have missed the mark of properly honoring the prophecies of God. The prior verse indicates such behavior actually contributes to quenching our Helper's influence on our lives.
     
    #8 Van, Aug 27, 2024
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Have you read a verse and considered why it does not mean what it seems to say, because it conflicts with our presuppositions about what the bible teaches? Say we were taught God chooses people for salvation unconditionally, and then we read 2 Thessalonians 2:13 which says God chooses people for salvation through faith in the truth. Would we be inclined to look for a way to nullify the verse, or humbly admit we had held an unsound doctrine? And is this tug of war why so many say "taint so" when the "so" is so obvious?
     
    #9 Van, Aug 27, 2024
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