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Featured Will God hold Christians accountable for their words and deeds?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JonC, Aug 27, 2024.

  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I posted that because @KenH had taken my statement that God will judge our works, we are accountable for our words and deeds to mean we must earn salvation.

    I am trying to make it very clear that those words to Christians are not about losing salvation but a warning of "escaping with one's life, as one escapes a fire".

    I agree that that would be a complete misuse of the passage.

    It seems to me those passages were intended to have the opposite effect than apathy. We should be galvanized to "lay up treasures in Heaven".
     
  2. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Please allow me to address some of what @JonC said that was directed toward me personally:

    1) Do I makes mistakes? YES! This fleshly, vile, corrupt, sinful body that my soul still inhabits is horrible, and as James said:

    James 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

    James 3:8 The tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

    2) I have no desire for anyone to be like I am, except to look to the Lord Jesus Christ ALONE for their foundation and salvation.

    3) No one on this message board has the necessary information to know what I have read or have not read.
     
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    1. Sure we make mistakes. And we grow "from glory to glory".

    But this does not negate the many passages that state God will judge Christians works, or that some will escape with their lives but as one who escapes a fire rather than one who is rewarded, or Jesus' command for us to set up treasures in Heaven, or or Paul's words about self-discipline lest we forfeit our prize, or Peter's command that we conduct ourselves in fear knowing that God will impartially judge our works, or Jesus' claim that we will have to account for our words.

    We are not talking about being lost, although for all practical purposes our works reveal our heart.


    Instead we are talking about those passages you condemning as assigning some Christians to an eternal existence as "escaping with their lives as one escapes a fire".

    If I recall, you said that woukd be like saying some get treasures laid up in Heaven while the disobedient Chriatians are fated to live in a shack.

    I don't know how it will look. But I do know tgat those warnings can't be ignored.

    2. Then perhaps you should work on that until you, like Paul, can say "imitate me".

    3.Sure we do (if you were posying honestly).

    You posted on a thread about a speech then admitted you had neither read or heard the speech.

    You commented on my post saying it was salvation by man when every one of my posts made a point of stating this was not about salvation. Christians do not lose their salvation.
     
  4. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    @JonC I feel that our relationship on this board is irreparably broken at this time. I'm sorry, but I think it is best if we no longer interact with other on this board. If you won't comply with my request, then be assured that I will no longer be responding to your posts on this board.
     
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    We do not have a relationship. I respond to posts (to data, to ideas expressed on this board).

    And I do argue when members misrepresent what I posted.

    So when you attributed my comment about Christians not laying up treasures in Heaven but escaping with their lives as one escapes a fire to holding a works based salvation Centered on man, I argued against you.

    We also choose which posts to engage.

    I do not expect a member to reply just because I respond to their content.

    I have also come to expect some members to take their ball and run home when challenged about misinformation they have posted. It takes a certain type of maturity to admit they posted in error. I've done this several times, and admitted the mistake. But it is not very common on this board. Most do simply runaway.

    I say that to simply say no apology needed. That is the way of this type of correspondence. I am not emotional when it comes to posts.

    I did.....off topic, but wanted you to know....finally get to watch Godzilla Minus Zero.
     
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Anyway,

    @37818 answered the OP already.

    2 Corinthians 5:10, For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

    1 Corinthians 3:10-15, . . . According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
     
    #26 JonC, Aug 28, 2024
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2024
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Here are a few (of many) verses that address the OP:

    2 Corinthians 5:10, For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

    1 Corinthians 3:10-15 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire

    Romans 2:5 [God] will render to each person according to his deeds to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life

    1 Peter 1:17 If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth

    Ephesians 2:9 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I am not sure if this matters, but what do you think these "rewards" and "treasures laid up in Heaven" will be?

    I wonder because it seems that these are fairly prominent in Scripture (Jesus and Paul spoke of these rewards many times) but often our churches teach almost a "just get in" theme.

    I remember reading how George Müller would turn down monetary donations for his ministry because he didn't want to trade his reward in heaven for that which perishes.
     
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The rewards are eternal, so I suspect those we helped to lead to Christ will be are reward, and if helped bring several, perhaps that equates with entering "abundantly?"

    Equating our earthly treasures, such as gifts to help our ministry, with our reward we earn by serving Christ is a non-starter in my book.
     
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  10. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Yes.

    7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Gal 6
     
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  11. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I agree.
     
  12. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    How do you view your parents, specifically your father? Was he punitive, consultative, loving or perhaps judgmental. I see The Godhead as a Parental figure… realizing I as the child of God am headstrong and immature… so He is patiently allowing me to grow up, both appreciating and accepting Him as a Father figure, and Sovereign Lord. That is all evident in the story of the wayward son and his return to his father.
     
  13. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    That is an inevitable consequence of sin. However there is forgiveness mixed into the justice factor.
     
  14. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    The perfect man is Jesus Christ and we all fall short of that model of perfection unfortunately.
     
  15. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Not Jon… surely no! :Laugh
     
  16. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Jon, you started the conversation referencing Ken and then you are surprised by his retaliation… come on!
     
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  17. ChristB4Us

    ChristB4Us Member

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    You left out the following two verses of 16-17 to 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 and it shows the consequence for defiling that temple of God which is a physical death.

    1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

    One may see that event takes place when left behind at the pre great tribulation rapture event. for not looking to Him for help to depart from iniquity.

    Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

    19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

    20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

    21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

    22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

    23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.


    24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

    25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

    Those unrepentant saints left behind to die are still saved, as 1 Corinthians 3:15 testifies.

     
  18. ChristB4Us

    ChristB4Us Member

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    There is a consequence if Paul did not discipline his body and it involves more than the loss of crowns as one can become a castaway.

    1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

    25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

    26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

    27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

    So that is why running that race by faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd & Friend to help us to resists sin in thought, word, and deed, in following Him daily is the race to run for that high prize of our calling to be that vessel unto honor in His House to avoid becoming a castaway by living in sin or practicing works of iniquity be it religious works that deny Him or a supernatural phenomenon that denies Him, and not just living the wild life in sin like the prodigal son.

    Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

    2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith
    ; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

    3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

    4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

    5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

    6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

    7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

    8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

    9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

    10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

    When does that scourging takes place in verse 6 on those that do not look to Jesus Christ daily to resist sin? After the pre great tribulation rapture event as you compare Hebrews 12;6 with Luke 12:46-48 below for not being ready.

    Luke 12: 40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

    41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?

    42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?

    43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

    44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.


    45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;

    46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

    47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

    48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

    49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

    Note Luke 12:49 as that is before the event when Jesus sends that fire on earth and so those left behind will be on earth for when that fire is sent on earth which infer the event of 1 Corinthians 3:13 below.

    1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

    I remind everyone reading this that 1 Corinthians 3;15 does testifies that those left behind that were not ready are still saved even though they will incur physical death for defiling that temple of God when left behind in that day.

    1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

    16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

    17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

    The works are burned off of that foundation but that foundation remains as that seal of adoption does too for why those saints & former believers left behind are still saved..
     
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't actually say that. Though God might do that. Remember Ananias, and Sapphira.
     
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    He's fun to watch. Kinda like a hyper kid....all over the place.
     
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